Ford Cat inline 6 vs the Cummins
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Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
ok smiggs in all seriousness i dont understand why i cannot compare it to the v10 please explain i dont understand.. It's the top offering from ford and the top offering from dodge and only a $600 option
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by SMIGGS
Because there is nothing to compare. The V10 is the superior gasoline motor for 3/4 ton trucks. Nobody is disputing the fact that the V10 is better, I'm disputing the fact that you are even making it a comparision.
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Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
agreed then.. so i can't compare it to the 6.0 chevy either then huh? not my fault the couldn't make a big block gasser to compete emissions legal. but i guess that arguement is over
But now that would be off topic now wouldn't it?
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Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
yea but your obviously acting like a damn idiot..
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
No its not and i'm not aggressive just stating facts.. unlike some one who obviously keeps talking out of there ****
I've stated nothing but 2 things here #1facts, #2hypothetical situations to were there isnt fact or fiction
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
Hmm I know the pot couldn't possibly be calling the kettle black here!!??
Not in the slightest
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
sure did... IF you only knew
I'm sorry, I didnt mean to slander the integrity or you lawn care service, I'm sure you do mounds of paperwork everynight before bedtime huh?
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
Yes but it aint gonna happen
Do you know what hypothetical means?
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
Hypothetically it would never happen as FORD has a better chassis to work with and in fact sells almost 3 times as much as dodge does in any give year.. so i want to know why they would pick dodge which already has a good engine and wouldn't think about switching or someone that is having trouble and has the money and resorces to help fund the program... Now you keep telling me to think of it from a business stand point.. so which one makes more sense. I gurantee if cat put an engine into a superduty tonight by tommorrow morning 65% of the dodge cummins on the road would be sitting in the trade in section first thing tomorrow morning..damn its hard to explain things to an idiot
Once again I am not saying that this is guaranteed to happen, I simply implied that Dodge trucks would be a better market for CAT IF(hypothetical here, dont get lost) they #1 wanted in the market and #2 (still hypothetical, stay with me here) the relationship with Cummins went south. I am not going to sit here and argue that CAT is in the works with Dodge, its simply not the case and we both know it, you are twisting my words.
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
NO they wouldn't if cat wanted to be in this market they would have done it a earlier little late IMHO a little to late
How is it a little too late?
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
Dont' need to your already making a fool of yourself without me trying sir..
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
really look who's being the idiot now.. Remind me who it is again who is having trouble selling their left over 2006 and renting up empty lots to store overstock... lets not be stupid.
Once again, I am not standing up for Daimler Chrysler or their business ethics, where does what you say even come into the conversation?
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
good for you i have pulled around that much with my 4.6 (way overloaded) but i had to get the job done. so its not saying a whole lot
And the point you are making is what? So you pulled it overloaded, I bet the Hemi in a 2500 would do it easier than a 5.4 in a 250, pretty sure about that.
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
okay whatever but i calls em as i see em' and i've driven a 2V 5.4 and i like them better than that thing
Its you opinion and you are entitled to it, the last halfer I had was a '99 w/ a 2v 5.4 and I would take them Hemi any day.
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
and who's fault is it they dropped the ball
Once again I am not arguing Daimlers business ethics or procedure, what you say has no place here.
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
how is not fair.. why couldnt' the crappy *** dodge come up with anything better??
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
whatever
Running out of defense?
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
not arguing there.. i'm saying when buying a truck TORQUE is more important then horsepower
So you would rather buy a Toyota 1/2er over a Ford?
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
good for you but the v10 kills it hands down.. i'm not using double standards but where is the MAJORITY of the v10 power made?
Majority of the power of the V10 is made REAL high but I love it an probably will always drive a V10. BTW the double standard was you bashing the Hemi for being high winding and then praising the V10 when in fact the V10 winds higher than the Hemi, I thought I explained that already.
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
really cause i could have sworn we had one in the F650 at work.. besides you wont see them in any 250-550
Oh so we are back to Medium Duty trucks? I could have sworn were talking Light Duty. Once again, changing subjects.
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
really and thats why there are 5.4's in the family with over 300k without rebuilds last long enough for me.. as ill be in a superduty long before this truck reaches 100k. anyway no need to talk about the 6.0 its discountinued and lets not count chicken before they are hatch as dodge also realeased a new engine
If you are happy with them fine, I only got my 5.4 to 128K before the rear main and everything with it went, but if they make you happy good for you. BTW the "new" dodge engine is nothing more than a stroked version of the old 5.9 not built from scratch.
Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
thats good but you also need to realize that cummins makes more power then the ford so i would hope that it would be a better "puller" dont give me that crap either BOTH have more then enough power to pull what you are pulling
So what are you arguing here? Sounds like you are agreeing with me. I pull a stock trailer about 4 times a week that weighs just a shade under 20K (like 19.8) and my CTD (overloaded according to specs) pulled it better than My Ford which is 3 years younger. Both do the trick, just one not as easy as the other, but then again thats the case with almost every truck on the road.
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by BigDaddy6969
Hmmmm, last resort in a lost arguement, attack the person and not their ideals. Bravo
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I've stated nothing but 2 things here #1facts, #2hypothetical situations to were there isnt fact or fiction
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Not in the slightest
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I'm sorry, I didnt mean to slander the integrity or you lawn care service, I'm sure you do mounds of paperwork everynight before bedtime huh?
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Do you know what hypothetical means?
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Once again I am not saying that this is guaranteed to happen, I simply implied that Dodge trucks would be a better market for CAT IF(hypothetical here, dont get lost) they #1 wanted in the market and #2 (still hypothetical, stay with me here) the relationship with Cummins went south. I am not going to sit here and argue that CAT is in the works with Dodge, its simply not the case and we both know it, you are twisting my words.
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How is it a little too late?
Is that a fact too? Or just more floundering before you sink?
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Once again, I am not standing up for Daimler Chrysler or their business ethics, where does what you say even come into the conversation?
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And the point you are making is what? So you pulled it overloaded, I bet the Hemi in a 2500 would do it easier than a 5.4 in a 250, pretty sure about that.
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Its you opinion and you are entitled to it, the last halfer I had was a '99 w/ a 2v 5.4 and I would take them Hemi any day.
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Once again I am not arguing Daimlers business ethics or procedure, what you say has no place here.
They have one the 6.1 hemi, i have heard rumors it will be available in '09 in their HD's.
Running out of defense?[/color]
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So you would rather buy a Toyota 1/2er over a Ford?
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Majority of the power of the V10 is made REAL high but I love it an probably will always drive a V10. BTW the double standard was you bashing the Hemi for being high winding and then praising the V10 when in fact the V10 winds higher than the Hemi, I thought I explained that already.
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Oh so we are back to Medium Duty trucks? I could have sworn were talking Light Duty. Once again, changing subjects.
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If you are happy with them fine, I only got my 5.4 to 128K before the rear main and everything with it went, but if they make you happy good for you. BTW the "new" dodge engine is nothing more than a stroked version of the old 5.9 not built from scratch.
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So what are you arguing here? Sounds like you are agreeing with me. I pull a stock trailer about 4 times a week that weighs just a shade under 20K (like 19.8) and my CTD (overloaded according to specs) pulled it better than My Ford which is 3 years younger. Both do the trick, just one not as easy as the other, but then again thats the case with almost every truck on the road.
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I've stated nothing but 2 things here #1facts, #2hypothetical situations to were there isnt fact or fiction
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Not in the slightest
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I'm sorry, I didnt mean to slander the integrity or you lawn care service, I'm sure you do mounds of paperwork everynight before bedtime huh?
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Do you know what hypothetical means?
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Once again I am not saying that this is guaranteed to happen, I simply implied that Dodge trucks would be a better market for CAT IF(hypothetical here, dont get lost) they #1 wanted in the market and #2 (still hypothetical, stay with me here) the relationship with Cummins went south. I am not going to sit here and argue that CAT is in the works with Dodge, its simply not the case and we both know it, you are twisting my words.
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How is it a little too late?
Is that a fact too? Or just more floundering before you sink?
[/color]
Once again, I am not standing up for Daimler Chrysler or their business ethics, where does what you say even come into the conversation?
[/color]
And the point you are making is what? So you pulled it overloaded, I bet the Hemi in a 2500 would do it easier than a 5.4 in a 250, pretty sure about that.
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Its you opinion and you are entitled to it, the last halfer I had was a '99 w/ a 2v 5.4 and I would take them Hemi any day.
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Once again I am not arguing Daimlers business ethics or procedure, what you say has no place here.
They have one the 6.1 hemi, i have heard rumors it will be available in '09 in their HD's.
Running out of defense?[/color]
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So you would rather buy a Toyota 1/2er over a Ford?
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Majority of the power of the V10 is made REAL high but I love it an probably will always drive a V10. BTW the double standard was you bashing the Hemi for being high winding and then praising the V10 when in fact the V10 winds higher than the Hemi, I thought I explained that already.
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Oh so we are back to Medium Duty trucks? I could have sworn were talking Light Duty. Once again, changing subjects.
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If you are happy with them fine, I only got my 5.4 to 128K before the rear main and everything with it went, but if they make you happy good for you. BTW the "new" dodge engine is nothing more than a stroked version of the old 5.9 not built from scratch.
[/color]
So what are you arguing here? Sounds like you are agreeing with me. I pull a stock trailer about 4 times a week that weighs just a shade under 20K (like 19.8) and my CTD (overloaded according to specs) pulled it better than My Ford which is 3 years younger. Both do the trick, just one not as easy as the other, but then again thats the case with almost every truck on the road.
you finally got me into a corner that i cant get out of
... you gotta me so i'll give up because i think it's best we stop this argument before it get out of hand
.. good job you do know what your talking about.. its just some of your ideas i have a disagreement with but your an informed person.. So lets call and end to this and shake hands
.. and just to show you know hard feelings against you i'll give you a rep point.. we love our FORD trucks and at the end of the day that's all that really matters
Last edited by bigdaddy52107; Apr 24, 2007 at 10:43 PM.
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Wow, feel the tension.
Just got back to this forum and I feel like I just walked into the waiting area at my shop, two truck drivers trying to out do the other. Cut the air with a knife!!
As I can see, some one really likes CAT, no problem. I work in an industrial area where the compitition is really tough. If you really want to see where the big three really spend there money, its not in your pick-up, sorry.
CAT's main bread and butter is off road contruction. Their engines are designed to the equipment they make. It just happened to be someone like the performance of the kitty and put it in the over-the-raod truck, KUDOS!!! Yes it works really well. Since CAT uses "bottom end torque" in moving dirt, it gives the tractor (semi truck) awsome power. Now if you really know CAT, you would know that most of its small engines are not small. The smaller forklift trucks actually use a Perkins diesel. (BUZZ KILL!) It is not in CAT's best intrest to put money in "popcorn" engines.
As for Dodge, or Daimler, the next generation truck of heavy duty is going to, sorry to say it, but Sterling. Check their website, no bull poo.
As for the EPA, (three little letters that don't go well together,) they have put a strong hold on the diesel industry. With emissions set at levels that seem impossible, Cummins has been investing in the research for a cleaner burning engine for a longer period of time. They had set there goals to achieve this even while CAT and Detriot were both yelling FOUL at the government. With the '07 Dodges now meeting 2010 emissions. Cat and Detroit have not even met the requirements yet. (could be wrong) For those industries that haven't met these requirements, they have to pay a fine for each engine that is installed in chasis in the USA, ouch! With the engine that have met requirements they receive fuel credits that can be used to help pay the fine.
With this, you can see why CAT will not be looking to build or design an engine that will meet the small truck market. I do mean small. For the trucks and equipment I work around are huge earth haulers. Komatsu, CAT, Unit Rig, Euclid, and LeTourneau. You want to see where the money is, check their web sites and research the info yourself. This stuff is BIG!
These forums are a wonderful place to share information and shere we get it from, not spred gossip like some old biddies. Can't we all just get along?
As I can see, some one really likes CAT, no problem. I work in an industrial area where the compitition is really tough. If you really want to see where the big three really spend there money, its not in your pick-up, sorry.
CAT's main bread and butter is off road contruction. Their engines are designed to the equipment they make. It just happened to be someone like the performance of the kitty and put it in the over-the-raod truck, KUDOS!!! Yes it works really well. Since CAT uses "bottom end torque" in moving dirt, it gives the tractor (semi truck) awsome power. Now if you really know CAT, you would know that most of its small engines are not small. The smaller forklift trucks actually use a Perkins diesel. (BUZZ KILL!) It is not in CAT's best intrest to put money in "popcorn" engines.
As for Dodge, or Daimler, the next generation truck of heavy duty is going to, sorry to say it, but Sterling. Check their website, no bull poo.
As for the EPA, (three little letters that don't go well together,) they have put a strong hold on the diesel industry. With emissions set at levels that seem impossible, Cummins has been investing in the research for a cleaner burning engine for a longer period of time. They had set there goals to achieve this even while CAT and Detriot were both yelling FOUL at the government. With the '07 Dodges now meeting 2010 emissions. Cat and Detroit have not even met the requirements yet. (could be wrong) For those industries that haven't met these requirements, they have to pay a fine for each engine that is installed in chasis in the USA, ouch! With the engine that have met requirements they receive fuel credits that can be used to help pay the fine.
With this, you can see why CAT will not be looking to build or design an engine that will meet the small truck market. I do mean small. For the trucks and equipment I work around are huge earth haulers. Komatsu, CAT, Unit Rig, Euclid, and LeTourneau. You want to see where the money is, check their web sites and research the info yourself. This stuff is BIG!
These forums are a wonderful place to share information and shere we get it from, not spred gossip like some old biddies. Can't we all just get along?
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From: Texas
and you Bs480ac have said everything i said and was trying to say... Damn it's so hard to talked to people that have absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about. and Yes we can get along i have no problem..
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From: Cloverdale, BC
Originally Posted by bs480ac
As for Dodge, or Daimler, the next generation truck of heavy duty is going to, sorry to say it, but Sterling. Check their website, no bull poo.
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Originally Posted by bigdaddy52107
and you Bs480ac have said everything i said and was trying to say... Damn it's so hard to talked to people that have absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about. and Yes we can get along i have no problem..
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Originally Posted by SMIGGS
Because there is nothing to compare. The V10 is the superior gasoline motor for 3/4 ton trucks. Nobody is disputing the fact that the V10 is better, I'm disputing the fact that you are even making it a comparision.
Anyone else completely bored yet?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=2
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Originally Posted by duramaximizer
Well torque or no torque, 5 gears or 6, the GM with the new 6.0 will actually pull better than the current V10.
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five or six humm
Interesting you bring this up. When Dodge first put the Cummins engine in their truck, they used a 5 speed manual and a poorly adapted automatic behind it. As for the 5 speed, it allowed wonderful control for pulling loads with out the sacrifice the automatic had. As it developed more, people started to notice the jump between 3rd and 4th gear. As you pulled the load up a grade, you ran out of speed and just governed the engine, as a result, you shift. The big "gap" between gears then really lugged down the engine resulting in up shift. This really defeated the pulling power of the engine. People put in a request to Dodge for something to correct the problem. As a result, the 6 speed transmission was introduced. Now it seems you have more gears but really all they did was bridge the gap between 3rd and 4th. So, if you own a Dodge, the 4th gear in your six speed is just a split to bridge the power gap.
Just useless information. I'm full of it. (meaning - doesn't get me far)
Just useless information. I'm full of it. (meaning - doesn't get me far)
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[QUOTE=duramaximizer]Well torque or no torque, 5 gears or 6, the GM with the new 6.0 will actually pull better than the current V10. Not my fault Ford can't make a small block or a big block that can compete.
Anyone else completely bored yet?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=4837&page_num ber=2[/QUOTE]
Nice try. Just because someone at Road and Track writes that the new 6.0L mated to a 6 speed tranny pulls a trailer up a 6 percent grade "abit" better I guess it must be chiseled ( sp?) in stone.
No solid numbers to back anything up. ( Non-scientific ) Hell throw the Hemi in there because apparently that is a valid comparision.
Geee, I never saw this coming with a name like "duramaximizer".
Anyone else completely bored yet?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=4837&page_num ber=2[/QUOTE]
Nice try. Just because someone at Road and Track writes that the new 6.0L mated to a 6 speed tranny pulls a trailer up a 6 percent grade "abit" better I guess it must be chiseled ( sp?) in stone.
No solid numbers to back anything up. ( Non-scientific ) Hell throw the Hemi in there because apparently that is a valid comparision.
Geee, I never saw this coming with a name like "duramaximizer".
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really LOL
just thought I would through it out there. back in 99, the 6.0 pulled better than the V10, so it is not like it hasn't been done before.
Besides the 6.0 is only lacking a little hp and torque to the V10 but it is in a lighter package.
just thought I would through it out there. back in 99, the 6.0 pulled better than the V10, so it is not like it hasn't been done before.
Besides the 6.0 is only lacking a little hp and torque to the V10 but it is in a lighter package.