Hellwig Anti Sway Bar
Tuned
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 394
Likes: 6
From: SEVA
The drop-links provided with the Hellwig bar are adjustable in length. And even when set at their shortest length, they should be just fine with a 2-1/2" lift. BTW, I purchased a 2-1/2" lift (add-a-leaf for the front & extra lift block for the rear), but haven't gotten around to installing it yet. I would've trimmed my Hellwig drop-links, but will let them stay a little long (they're too long at their shortest setting for OEM ride height) until I install the lift kit. The optimum orientation for an anti-sway bar is to have its longitudinal "arms" parallel with the ground.
Junior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 59
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Originally Posted by LANDYOT
The drop-links provided with the Hellwig bar are adjustable in length. And even when set at their shortest length, they should be just fine with a 2-1/2" lift. BTW, I purchased a 2-1/2" lift (add-a-leaf for the front & extra lift block for the rear), but haven't gotten around to installing it yet. I would've trimmed my Hellwig drop-links, but will let them stay a little long (they're too long at their shortest setting for OEM ride height) until I install the lift kit. The optimum orientation for an anti-sway bar is to have its longitudinal "arms" parallel with the ground.
LANDYOT:Also, I sent you an email about getting on the waiting list :-)
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 208
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From: San Francisco Bay Area
Here's some information I gathered while learning and being trained by OEM's on Porsche in recent years, as it pertains to suspension.
As a background point, I found this thread because the only anti-roll bar I can find for the Excursion comes from Hellwig. I bought their kit for a Chevy Tahoe a few years ago and it was much the same problem -- the kit arrived bouncing around in a box, chipped paint/power-coat and rusty and looking used but still obviously new (no marks on the bolt holes) with missing bushings, vague, misleading and effectively useless instructions on crumpled, multiple photo-copied sheets that could have been for a kids tricycle for how little it seemed to pertain to removing the old bars and fitting the new ones.
And this goes to bight Hellwig in the **** because I've had so many compliments on the truck overall (suspension, wheels, paint, roof box, bodywork, headlights, nose, supercharger, audio, satellite, navigation, security) and each time they ask about suspension or any other upgrade I just say what went well and fits and works as advertised and what was a mess, showed up looking cheap and took extra time to fix problems they were too lazy to fix for themselves. Nightmare products.
Sadly, when you look at Landyot or "one guy in a garage" he obviously puts in the hours -- time taken away from family ,friends or just TV and email -- but the results are top notch. Conversely, buying from "cut costs, throw it out there" companies means a product that was only ever "developed" for one brand is roughly adapted to fit all other brands of vehicle and the results are disappointing to say the least.
Anyway, some points.
If the lever/blade/arm of the anti-roll bar is level, then it exhibits the least change in torsional stiffness/rigidity through the range of motion of the suspension and the range and rate of change is close to linear. To elaborate, if the lever is below "level" (or at 90 degrees to the mid-point of the suspension carrier or axle) it will at first be stiffer (shorter length of the lever) then stiffer and then increasingly stiff. This would be noticeable and problematic in a race car, but might not be a big deal on a truck, even though it would surely exhibit "odd" handling characteristics -- mostly "lunging" and bobbing. If the lever/arm is above 90 degrees, it will be stiffer and "accelerate" or gain stiffness faster (and with less load) than a horizontal or 90 degree arm. So the vehicle will exhibit more roll-stiffness and tend to "bind" the roll resistance to the suspension load. This creates "skate" and "plow" and makes the vehicle susceptible to sudden loss of traction under braking and cornering. Charming.
Also, the whole roll/dive/compression system of anti-roll bars and springs works within an envelope. The useful operation of the suspension within that envelope assumes each working element stays within predescribes limits. By raising or lowering to the arm (angle) of the anti-roll bar lever, the suspension becomes utterly unpredictable. There is no shortcut to stiffening or softening an anti-roll bar. Worse still, as the vehicle is raised/lifted, the leverage of the mass of the cabin/occupants/luggage/cargo is greatly multiplied, so the anti-roll bars have even more work.
Just imagine looking at a monster truck as it bobs and wobbles around, then apply those same pogo-stick / jack-in-the-box handling characteristics to your Excursion as you try to avoid the jackass that just cut into your lane and now he's giving you a brake-check. And be sure the roll-over strength of the Excursion cabin will not support the impact load of a 7700lb+ SUV at freeway speeds. So, please, do set up the anti-roll bars with the lever at a right-angle. : )
As a background point, I found this thread because the only anti-roll bar I can find for the Excursion comes from Hellwig. I bought their kit for a Chevy Tahoe a few years ago and it was much the same problem -- the kit arrived bouncing around in a box, chipped paint/power-coat and rusty and looking used but still obviously new (no marks on the bolt holes) with missing bushings, vague, misleading and effectively useless instructions on crumpled, multiple photo-copied sheets that could have been for a kids tricycle for how little it seemed to pertain to removing the old bars and fitting the new ones.
And this goes to bight Hellwig in the **** because I've had so many compliments on the truck overall (suspension, wheels, paint, roof box, bodywork, headlights, nose, supercharger, audio, satellite, navigation, security) and each time they ask about suspension or any other upgrade I just say what went well and fits and works as advertised and what was a mess, showed up looking cheap and took extra time to fix problems they were too lazy to fix for themselves. Nightmare products.
Sadly, when you look at Landyot or "one guy in a garage" he obviously puts in the hours -- time taken away from family ,friends or just TV and email -- but the results are top notch. Conversely, buying from "cut costs, throw it out there" companies means a product that was only ever "developed" for one brand is roughly adapted to fit all other brands of vehicle and the results are disappointing to say the least.
Anyway, some points.
If the lever/blade/arm of the anti-roll bar is level, then it exhibits the least change in torsional stiffness/rigidity through the range of motion of the suspension and the range and rate of change is close to linear. To elaborate, if the lever is below "level" (or at 90 degrees to the mid-point of the suspension carrier or axle) it will at first be stiffer (shorter length of the lever) then stiffer and then increasingly stiff. This would be noticeable and problematic in a race car, but might not be a big deal on a truck, even though it would surely exhibit "odd" handling characteristics -- mostly "lunging" and bobbing. If the lever/arm is above 90 degrees, it will be stiffer and "accelerate" or gain stiffness faster (and with less load) than a horizontal or 90 degree arm. So the vehicle will exhibit more roll-stiffness and tend to "bind" the roll resistance to the suspension load. This creates "skate" and "plow" and makes the vehicle susceptible to sudden loss of traction under braking and cornering. Charming.
Also, the whole roll/dive/compression system of anti-roll bars and springs works within an envelope. The useful operation of the suspension within that envelope assumes each working element stays within predescribes limits. By raising or lowering to the arm (angle) of the anti-roll bar lever, the suspension becomes utterly unpredictable. There is no shortcut to stiffening or softening an anti-roll bar. Worse still, as the vehicle is raised/lifted, the leverage of the mass of the cabin/occupants/luggage/cargo is greatly multiplied, so the anti-roll bars have even more work.
Just imagine looking at a monster truck as it bobs and wobbles around, then apply those same pogo-stick / jack-in-the-box handling characteristics to your Excursion as you try to avoid the jackass that just cut into your lane and now he's giving you a brake-check. And be sure the roll-over strength of the Excursion cabin will not support the impact load of a 7700lb+ SUV at freeway speeds. So, please, do set up the anti-roll bars with the lever at a right-angle. : )
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