Just for the general masses tempering is a heat treatment process applied to hardened steel to reduce brittleness. Mild steel, which is what these channels are made from, doesn’t undergo hardening - so tempering it would be pointless.

The channels are formed from thin-gauge mild steel, stamped to shape. Any “springiness” is a result of form tension, not heat treatment.

If they were truly tempered, you’d see increased hardness (Rockwell C scale), which would make them brittle and prone to cracking.

 

I'm guessing these channels are a plain carbon steel with little to no additional alloying other than tramp elements that are incidental to the source melt. Any ferrous metal will hold its form up to its elastic limit at which point it will not return to its original form. I have seen channels bow outward due to corrosion products swelling against the walls of the channel. But under normal dry environment they should retain their shape.

 

Fine believe what you want too. I'm not going to have one tested to prove you wrong, And I doubt you will to prove your right. so, let's let it drop to a matter of opinion.

 

Pull up your favorite Artificial Intelligence and ask. It's not a secret as to how tempering works and what it's used for. Think 'Forged in Fire" and the quench. I'm not giving an opinion. File the channel with a rasp - if you penetrate the surface easily then you'll know it is not hardened and if it's not hardened, they wouldn't temper it.

 

I've never use Grok.com until just now but I asked it to read the thread and provide an analysis of what is correct. Here's what it said.

I’ve analyzed the provided thread from the Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...process-3.html) regarding the discussion about OEM lift channels and whether they undergo tempering. The relevant posts (#31–#34) focus on the material properties of the lift channels used in door glass replacement for 1961–1966 Ford F-100 and larger F-Series trucks. Below is an analysis of the arguments and who is likely correct about the OEM lift channels and the processes applied to them.

### Summary of the Discussion
- **TA455HO (#31, #34)**:
- Claims the OEM lift channels are made of **mild steel** (low-carbon steel) and are **not hardened or tempered**.
- Argues that tempering is a process applied to hardened steel to reduce brittleness, but mild steel doesn’t undergo hardening due to its low carbon content, making tempering pointless.
- Suggests the “springiness” of the channels is due to **form tension** from stamping, not heat treatment like tempering.
- Notes that if the channels were tempered, they would be harder (measurable on the Rockwell C scale) and prone to brittleness or cracking.
- In #34, TA455HO reinforces their point by suggesting a practical test: filing the channel with a rasp. If the surface is easily penetrated, it’s not hardened (and thus not tempered).

- **jalls1 (#32)**:
- Supports the idea that the channels are made of **plain carbon steel** (likely mild steel) with minimal alloying elements.
- Attributes any deformation (e.g., bowing) to **corrosion products** swelling in the channel rather than heat treatment or tempering.
- States that under normal conditions, the channels should retain their shape up to their elastic limit.

- **stonewalljac (#33)**:
- Disagrees with TA455HO, implying the channels might be tempered but doesn’t provide evidence or technical reasoning.
- Suggests the disagreement is a “matter of opinion” and declines to pursue further testing to prove or disprove the claim.

### Analysis
1. **Material of OEM Lift Channels**:
- Both TA455HO and jalls1 agree the lift channels are likely made of **mild steel** (low-carbon steel, typically 0.05–0.25% carbon) with minimal alloying. This is consistent with automotive manufacturing practices for components like window lift channels, which prioritize cost, formability, and sufficient strength over high hardness.
- Mild steel is commonly used for stamped parts because it’s ductile, easy to form, and cost-effective. High-carbon or alloyed steels, which can be hardened and tempered, are typically reserved for components requiring high strength or wear resistance (e.g., springs or cutting tools), not window lift channels.

2. **Tempering and Its Applicability**:
- **TA455HO’s Argument**: Tempering is a heat treatment process that follows quenching, used to reduce brittleness in hardened steel (typically medium- or high-carbon steel). Mild steel lacks sufficient carbon to form a hard martensitic structure during quenching, so hardening (and thus tempering) is not applicable. This is technically accurate:
- **Quenching** rapidly cools steel to form martensite, a hard but brittle phase, which requires sufficient carbon (typically >0.3%).
- **Tempering** then heats the quenched steel to a lower temperature (e.g., 150–650°C) to reduce brittleness while retaining some hardness.
- Mild steel, with low carbon content, doesn’t form significant martensite when quenched, so tempering is unnecessary and ineffective.
- **stonewalljac’s Argument**: Suggests the channels might be tempered but provides no evidence or explanation of how tempering would apply to mild steel or why it would be used for lift channels. The claim lacks technical support.

3. **Springiness of the Channels**:
- TA455HO attributes the “springiness” to **form tension** from the stamping process, where the steel is shaped under mechanical stress, giving it elastic properties. This is plausible, as stamped mild steel retains some elasticity due to its ductile nature and the residual stresses from forming.
- jalls1 supports this indirectly by noting that mild steel will hold its shape up to its elastic limit, and any deformation (e.g., bowing) is likely due to external factors like corrosion, not heat treatment.
- No evidence in the thread or standard manufacturing practices suggests tempering is used to achieve springiness in mild steel lift channels.

4. **Hardness and Practical Test**:
- TA455HO’s suggestion to file the channel with a rasp is a practical way to test hardness. Mild steel (not hardened) has a low hardness (e.g., Rockwell B scale, ~60–80), making it relatively easy to file. Hardened and tempered steel would be much harder (e.g., Rockwell C scale, ~20–60, depending on tempering temperature), resisting filing. This supports TA455HO’s claim that the channels are not hardened or tempered.

5. **stonewalljac’s Position**:
- stonewalljac’s response is dismissive, framing the disagreement as a “matter of opinion” without providing technical reasoning or evidence. This weakens their position, as they don’t counter TA455HO’s explanation or explain why tempering would be applied to mild steel channels.

### Who Is Right?
**TA455HO and jalls1 are correct** based on the following:
- OEM lift channels for 1961–1966 Ford trucks are likely made of **mild steel**, as this is standard for stamped automotive components like window lift channels.
- **Tempering is not applied to mild steel** because it lacks the carbon content needed for hardening (quenching), which is a prerequisite for tempering. The process would be pointless and not cost-effective for such components.
- The “springiness” of the channels is adequately explained by **form tension** from stamping, not heat treatment.
- No evidence or industry practice suggests that window lift channels undergo tempering, as they don’t require the hardness or brittleness reduction that tempering provides.

**stonewalljac’s claim** that the channels might be tempered is unsupported and contradicts standard metallurgical principles and automotive manufacturing practices. Their refusal to engage with evidence or testing further undermines their position.

### Conclusion
The OEM lift channels are made of **mild steel** and are **not tempered**. They are stamped to shape, and any springiness results from form tension, not heat treatment. **TA455HO** provides a technically accurate explanation, supported by jalls1’s comments on material properties, while stonewalljac’s counterclaim lacks substantiation.

 

LOL I was not aware that we were in an AI court of law. Congratulations on your ability to pull support out of the air. I do not care at this point what it is made from or who did it. You obviously have a lot of free time to play with. Next time answer the OP questions as to how to change a busted window which is what the thread was about. I am done with this.

 

You may not have read my post #2 and the reply from the OP thanking me in post #3. I may not have addressed every question he might have from start to finish but I got the thread rolling with some info that might help when removing and reinstalling it that nobody else gave so I feel good about my contribution - and so can you. I learned some from what you wrote. There is no reason to be combative in debates or to feel like you need to be done with anything. You could do the exact same thing I did with the AI of your choice if you wanted to and I suspect you'd get a similar response. For me it's not about being right it's about being accurate for others that read this forum.

 

Good Morning all, @stonewalljac & @TA455HO , Thank you, I literally laughed out loud, and considering the day and stress I had yesterday, completely unrelated to anything Ford, I needed that. I feel like a little kid who poked a bear with a stick...who was holding onto a bee's nest. You guys can decide who is the bear and who is the swarm of bees. Regardless, I learned something and as Chad said, I learned something valuable from both of you.

The thing about this site, and why I have recommended it to several new early Ford owners, who I have come across on FB, is that it is made up of some very knowledgeable and good hearted folks who offer their time, often their resources, and knowledge to those of us who are just joining the Old Ford Club. I probably spend way too much time reading old threads, following some new ones, and in the end, I would like to think, making some new, if not far away, friends.

@stonewalljac , your post #4 giving a great description of your process in setting the channel, coupled with @Crop Duster post #17 with a photo of the bench jig he built, are invaluable to anyone who will read this thread now or in five, or even in 25 years, assuming the world has not imploded by then.

And @TA455HO , as a cabinet and furniture maker holding onto the Autism spectrum with one, and sometimes both hands (so my wife says), I agree...accuracy matters. Again, in five or in 25 years, someone who has to make a new channel to keep his or her Great Great Great Grandpa's (G4 for short) truck on the road, will benefit from knowing what was likely used.

Thanks again all, this made my day. -Matt, The Dassler (October 1, 2025 @ 6:53 am Greenwich Mean Time, in Siegan Germany).