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I have a 302 f150 with an np 435, before anyone asks, yes I have the dust plate between the flywheel and block installed. I ordered what Napa said was the correct starter, i didn’t notice that there was no cutout for the flywheel and it chewed the starter up, also I let that one get too hot, (shorty headers forced the exhaust to get closer) but I heat taped everything and that’s not my issue anymore. Last Monday I returned the one for the manual and got an auto trans one because it had the cutout for the flywheel. I started the truck with the new one and it made a grinding noise, so I took it out and spaced it out 1/8 of an inch and it stopped. Not having more than 10 starts, while I was setting the timing, I shut it off to put the spout connecter back in and it pulled this stunt. Wouldn’t turn the flywheel, just made bad noises
the drive gear is very loose on the center shaft too, please explain the differences to me so I don’t ruin another one. Thanks!
I went with the auto because the manual one didn’t have a notch cutout for the flywheel to clear and the manual one got my starter torn up pretty bad, can I just shim the manual starter so this dosent happen?
I still dont understand what this notch is you talk about?
Could it be the manual starter was not for a Ford? Never heard of anything like that before.
I would go to a different store of a different name and see what their manual starter looks like.
From what I have seen posted the difference between the 2 starters is how far the gear kicks out and that is easy to measure.
Measure from the bellhousing base where the starter sits to the flywheel.
Then measure the starter from the same base that sits on the bellhousing, push the gear out and measure they should be the same to not have any problems.
Only other thing would be tooth could of the flywheel.
Was the motor / flywheel ever been changed?
Dave ----
I’m not well versed on the difference between auto and manual starters, but something doesn’t sound right.
What is the recent history of this truck? Has this particular engine/transmission combo been running together with no issues for a while until the starter gave out? Or is this combo newly assembled and the starter has never worked properly?
If the former, do you still have the starter that had been working properly? If so, physically compare it to any replacement. If there’s a difference in the nose, I wonder if your first replacement was a reman accidentally assembled from the wrong parts.
If this engine/transmission combo was newly assembled, what about the dowel pins? If one or both were missing, the index plate could be slightly misaligned. That might be enough to prevent the starter gear from meshing properly with the flywheel ring gear.
I’m not well versed on the difference between auto and manual starters, but something doesn’t sound right.
What is the recent history of this truck? Has this particular engine/transmission combo been running together with no issues for a while until the starter gave out? Or is this combo newly assembled and the starter has never worked properly?
If the former, do you still have the starter that had been working properly? If so, physically compare it to any replacement. If there’s a difference in the nose, I wonder if your first replacement was a reman accidentally assembled from the wrong parts.
If this engine/transmission combo was newly assembled, what about the dowel pins? If one or both were missing, the index plate could be slightly misaligned. That might be enough to prevent the starter gear from meshing properly with the flywheel ring gear.
so, the ring gear does not any teeth missing, I replaced a new starter with the old one when I did my clutch job. no motor swap or tranny swap. they are exactly how they were from the factory.
the factory starter was old and didn't work good, I replaced it with the "correct one" it worked great even though the flywheel ground the aluminum down (I think my thrust bearings are bad) and I installed shorty headers and didn't foresee the exhaust being to close to the starter. it cooked the starter and it would only work when cold (timing is also off). so I warrantied my starter and got an auto one instead because of the damage to the original and I wanted the cut out for the flywheel. you guys don't know what I mean but I'm talking about the notch that s cut out of the starter body to clear the flywheel on the pinon end of the starter. there was wear on the original starter on the washer under the pinion like the flywheel rubbed against both. I know there are shims out there so maybe I will head to the hardware store with calipers and find two 1/16 washers so my starter isn't cockeyed.
I have never seen starter shims for a Fords only for the GM motors.
If you use washers to "shim it" the starter will not have any way to locate it. Look at the lip on the starter and how it fits the motor plate, that is what holds it in place.
If the flywheel teeth were hitting the thrust washer of the starter I would say the starter was not fitted into the motor plate right.
What I see from the starter and the chewed up gear is the gear was hitting the flywheel teeth when at rest.
Again measure the starter with gear at rest and out all the way then the bellhousing to flywheel and see what you come up with.
If you find they try and be in the same place at the same time you got the wrong starter.
Because you now have the measurement when you get a starter for a manual you can measure it right at the store to see if it will work or not.
Dave ----
There is a difference between the dust plates from standard to automatic transmissions. The automatic plate locates the starter closer to the crankshaft because automatics have smaller flywheels. If you lay the 2 plates on each other you will see the difference.
So if you have the automatic plate now that is why the flywheel is hitting the starter housing.
I know there are shims out there so maybe I will head to the hardware store with calipers and find two 1/16 washers so my starter isn't cockeyed.
Huh? What’s happening that your starter is crooked? Two bolts hold it square and tight to the bellhousing (and index plate). Something ain’t right if the starter is cockeyed.
Once you get that sorted, there has to have been a particular starter that worked properly with your truck. Seems like you got a bad/mismatched replacement or two along the way. Rather than trying to trying to force an auto starter to work with a manual flywheel, I’d suggest traveling back in time to those happy starter days and duplicate that installation.
Ford starters are not designed to be shimmed like GM did. The geometry is fixed. But if you still have your heart set on shimming, this thread may be of interest. This was a fix only for a specific problem which I don’t believe applies to your situation:
Check the torque on the bolts between the engine and bellhousing. Since the problem began after replacing the clutch, those bolts may have been binding when everything was reassembled. They may not be clamping the block and bellhousing together properly, causing alignment issues.
Run a voltage drop test, to make sure the electrical side of the starter system is up to snuff. The starter drive has to snap into place when you turn the key. If it just kinda mushes over, the drive gear may not extend fully before the starter spins, grinding away on the end of the teeth. The test is very simple, ten minutes tops with a meter and nothing to disconnect:
Check the torque on the bolts between the engine and bellhousing. Since the problem began after replacing the clutch, those bolts may have been binding when everything was reassembled. They may not be clamping the block and bellhousing together properly, causing alignment issues.
Along the same line of the bolts there are 2 locating pins or dowels on either side of the bellhousing.
Just like loose bellhousing bolts missing pins can also let the transmission move around.
Being you changed the clutch maybe one or both fell out?
Dave ----
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