460 EFI Pinging/Over Advancing Issues
Logistics Pro
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,928
Likes: 1,199
From: Mojave, Ca
You need to either power-brake it while watching the fuel pressure gauge, or get on the highway and floor it for a ~5 seconds with the fuel pressure gauge taped to the cowl. The goal is to stress out the fuel system to prove it can hold 40-45psi while the engine needs the most amount of fuel. Blipping in the driveway doesn't prove much.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,970
Likes: 595
From: Greater Austin, Texas
You need to either power-brake it while watching the fuel pressure gauge, or get on the highway and floor it for a ~5 seconds with the fuel pressure gauge taped to the cowl. The goal is to stress out the fuel system to prove it can hold 40-45psi while the engine needs the most amount of fuel. Blipping in the driveway doesn't prove much.
I can't power brake a manual trans. Given the state of the plugs, fuel delivery is not my problem IMO.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 367
From: Candy Mountain
Just to the point about trying to stress test the fuel pumps, the testing should be conducted under the same circumstances as the concern or complaint. If the truck has a problem under normal driving conditions then testing the pressure under normal driving conditions should be sufficient to determine if it is contributing to the concern.
Back to the concern of the thread... have you guys ruled out simple exhaust leaks?
Instead of ping might you have gas igniting in the exhaust system?
Back to the concern of the thread... have you guys ruled out simple exhaust leaks?
Instead of ping might you have gas igniting in the exhaust system?
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,970
Likes: 595
From: Greater Austin, Texas
My problem seems to have been total timing which I have controlled by setting back the initial advance to 0 TDC. That makes total advance about 38 BTC which is still on the high side IMO but has really quieted the pinging. I can still hear just a little under hard acceleration but it's nothing like it was. I had dialed back initial to 4 BTC before but I guess that was not enough. I'm gonna experiment with this a bit using regular and premium fuel to see what is best setting. As far as I can tell, the initial setting only affects total advance, otherwise the computer sets it where it wants.
I have to wonder why Ford wanted total advance to be so far out there at about 46-48 BTC with initial set to 10. That seems way high to me, especially with no knock sensor. I looked back at an old Motor spec manual and I see that total advance on a 1975 460 is 22.5 without vacuum advance, which you would not have at WOT. Even with vacuum advance full on it's 36 BTC and the gas back then was better than it is now.
I have to wonder why Ford wanted total advance to be so far out there at about 46-48 BTC with initial set to 10. That seems way high to me, especially with no knock sensor. I looked back at an old Motor spec manual and I see that total advance on a 1975 460 is 22.5 without vacuum advance, which you would not have at WOT. Even with vacuum advance full on it's 36 BTC and the gas back then was better than it is now.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 5,221
Likes: 805
My problem seems to have been total timing which I have controlled by setting back the initial advance to 0 TDC. That makes total advance about 38 BTC which is still on the high side IMO but has really quieted the pinging. I can still hear just a little under hard acceleration but it's nothing like it was. I had dialed back initial to 4 BTC before but I guess that was not enough. I'm gonna experiment with this a bit using regular and premium fuel to see what is best setting. As far as I can tell, the initial setting only affects total advance, otherwise the computer sets it where it wants.
I have to wonder why Ford wanted total advance to be so far out there at about 46-48 BTC with initial set to 10. That seems way high to me, especially with no knock sensor. I looked back at an old Motor spec manual and I see that total advance on a 1975 460 is 22.5 without vacuum advance, which you would not have at WOT. Even with vacuum advance full on it's 36 BTC and the gas back then was better than it is now.
I have to wonder why Ford wanted total advance to be so far out there at about 46-48 BTC with initial set to 10. That seems way high to me, especially with no knock sensor. I looked back at an old Motor spec manual and I see that total advance on a 1975 460 is 22.5 without vacuum advance, which you would not have at WOT. Even with vacuum advance full on it's 36 BTC and the gas back then was better than it is now.
And less emissions. Old motor spec manuals with such low advance was because they choked the engines they had with smog equipment, retarded timing, increased temperature, ettc to keep the big inefficient engines when it should have been smaller engines and worked back ot bigger ones.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,970
Likes: 595
From: Greater Austin, Texas
its moronic to be playing with the base timing
Seeing as how this is your first contribution to this thread, and you offer no solution, your criticism here is overly harsh, don't you think?
more timing is more power
Too a point, but when it starts pinging, you've gone too far.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,542
Likes: 2,668
From: Near Salt Lake City
Well, it is moronic to play with the base timing
There are ways to play with the timing but ****ting the processor into thinking something besides 10 is the base is futile
Like checking the status of the octane shorting bar
That is what you play with
There are ways to play with the timing but ****ting the processor into thinking something besides 10 is the base is futile
Like checking the status of the octane shorting bar
That is what you play with
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,542
Likes: 2,668
From: Near Salt Lake City
There is a reason you do not know about it
Mainly left to us Ford techs so everybody and their dog doesn't screw with them
There is a code for the status of the octane shorting bar
You remove yours, and I'll know it by the code it generates
These days it's a little more common knowledge
Just google Ford octane rod and Ford octane shorting bar and you will see octane rods with different numbers on them and spout plug looking things
Those are the bars and the plugs
Fun stuff
there is a bunch of stuff they keep under the cuff
Mainly left to us Ford techs so everybody and their dog doesn't screw with them
There is a code for the status of the octane shorting bar
You remove yours, and I'll know it by the code it generates
These days it's a little more common knowledge
Just google Ford octane rod and Ford octane shorting bar and you will see octane rods with different numbers on them and spout plug looking things
Those are the bars and the plugs
Fun stuff
there is a bunch of stuff they keep under the cuff
Fleet Owner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 20,789
Likes: 1,753
From: Kentucky
The octane rod topic comes up every once in awhile. I found this article explaining what it does: The Octane Rod ;- Mythical or Magical ?
Seems like a good write up to me.
Seems like a good write up to me.
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,542
Likes: 2,668
From: Near Salt Lake City
I would Just make sure the plug is in when you set the timing to 10 degrees
That way you can remove it if necessary, and or switch rods
The octane plug looks identical to the spout plug it is just hidden away in the harness somewhere
That way you can remove it if necessary, and or switch rods
The octane plug looks identical to the spout plug it is just hidden away in the harness somewhere
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 2,259
Likes: 742
From: Maryland
Could an octane rod make the difference in hot starts versus cold starts?
My '88 5.0 starts instantly when cold, or after a five or ten minute shutdown, but after approximately a twenty to thirty minute shutdown, on a warm engine, it always takes two tries. Then, on that second try, it starts instantly. Signed J Moron.
My '88 5.0 starts instantly when cold, or after a five or ten minute shutdown, but after approximately a twenty to thirty minute shutdown, on a warm engine, it always takes two tries. Then, on that second try, it starts instantly. Signed J Moron.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 2,259
Likes: 742
From: Maryland
The octane rod topic comes up every once in awhile. I found this article explaining what it does: The Octane Rod ;- Mythical or Magical ?
Seems like a good write up to me.
Seems like a good write up to me.