View Poll Results: Do you believe in .....
Absolute truth...same is true for everyone, every circumstance, all the time.
6
27.27%
subjective truth....truth is relative to the circumstances around me.
16
72.73%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll
Absolute Truth - is there?
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 0
From: Baileyton, TN
Originally posted by Waxy
Theo,
Does the fact that the truth hurts make it any more absolute or subjective?
I don't really understand your reply.
From what I understand, your point is that there is absolute truth, but since it could have negative repercussions, it should be ignored and we should deal in subjective truth.
Is that the jist of it?
I think Dono might be looking for a press secretary.
Waxy
Theo,
Does the fact that the truth hurts make it any more absolute or subjective?
I don't really understand your reply.
From what I understand, your point is that there is absolute truth, but since it could have negative repercussions, it should be ignored and we should deal in subjective truth.
Is that the jist of it?
I think Dono might be looking for a press secretary.
Waxy
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,532
Likes: 5
From: Trussville, Alabama
Waxy and Sinjin,
Let me turn the tables a little.....
Do you believe that outside the emperical world (math, etc) there is NO absolute "truth"? Not even ONE example of anything that regardless of culture, society, etc is either universally "right" or universally "wrong" (or true / untrue)?
Thanks.
Let me turn the tables a little.....
Do you believe that outside the emperical world (math, etc) there is NO absolute "truth"? Not even ONE example of anything that regardless of culture, society, etc is either universally "right" or universally "wrong" (or true / untrue)?
Thanks.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
From: N. Florida - The "No 4x4
I would be interested as well in Sinjin's definition of "death".
. . FWIW - I think the concept/words "right" and "wrong" should be left out of this, respectfully. It can serve no purpose but to muddy the issue being discussed. Any issue here left to interpretation in this manner forces a conclusion of "flexible truth". . . just my opinion, I don't expect it to carry any weight.
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)
. . FWIW - I think the concept/words "right" and "wrong" should be left out of this, respectfully. It can serve no purpose but to muddy the issue being discussed. Any issue here left to interpretation in this manner forces a conclusion of "flexible truth". . . just my opinion, I don't expect it to carry any weight.
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Last edited by ctfuzzy; Nov 24, 2003 at 07:46 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: rural SE Michigan
Truth, as defined in the American Heritage Dictionary, is both absolute and subjective.
I conclude the poll is flawed, although the results are intriguing.
Your mileage may vary.
Oldbones
I conclude the poll is flawed, although the results are intriguing.
Your mileage may vary.
Oldbones
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,314
Likes: 35
Truth by definition is objective: The dollar is a unit of weight. Theft is wrong. These are true statements at all times and not most of the time and not depending on who presents it. A subjective truth is a contradiction in terms, an impossibility.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 271
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From: California
In everyday life the issue usually isn't "truths", absolute or otherwise. It's about using your values to make the best decision possible for a given situation. It's a weighting system, and we all use it every day.
The values themselves may contain absolute-sounding truths like "lying is wrong". But there are harmless lies that do no damage when telling the truth would be needlessly destructive, such as when a bride asks you if you've having a nice time at her wedding. This might be the wrong time to look her straight in the eye and say, "Well, this day may be special for you, but the food wasn't very good, the band is giving me a headache, and your father in law is puking behind the garbage bins at this very moment". Or is telling the truth more important at that moment?
And then there's the whole Santa Claus thing. Are you lying to your children this year?
The values themselves may contain absolute-sounding truths like "lying is wrong". But there are harmless lies that do no damage when telling the truth would be needlessly destructive, such as when a bride asks you if you've having a nice time at her wedding. This might be the wrong time to look her straight in the eye and say, "Well, this day may be special for you, but the food wasn't very good, the band is giving me a headache, and your father in law is puking behind the garbage bins at this very moment". Or is telling the truth more important at that moment?
And then there's the whole Santa Claus thing. Are you lying to your children this year?
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,263
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From: N. Florida - The "No 4x4
Originally posted by zonkola
. . . And then there's the whole Santa Claus thing. Are you lying to your children this year?
. . . And then there's the whole Santa Claus thing. Are you lying to your children this year?
I'm sure I am not the only one here reaching a point in their lives where many of the things they have held as "absolute truths" begin to come into question.
There are MANY folks here who unquestioningly believe that God is an absolute truth. I'm sure there are few more that are as equally convinced he was "simply" an alien and that the scriptures are the result of a simple people trying to put reason to things they could not understand.
No more evidence of truth exists to support one theory than another - just faith.
Question; doesn't that FORCE "God" into the "subjective truth" category?
. . no offense meant to our religious folks - in any way.
Respectfully.
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New User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 23
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This is certainly not a new question. Pontuis Pilate pondered this almost 2000 years ago when Jesus said "...and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Everyone that is of the truth heareth my voice." Pilate saith unto him What is truth? (Excerpted from John 18:37,38 KJV. Please read the rest of the chapter).
And, of course, John 14:6 ; Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me.
John 8:32 ; And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
2 Timothy 3:6,7 ; For of this sort are they.... Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 2:2 ; And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
1 John 3:19 ; And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
Yes, there is indeed truth. Matthew 7:14 ; Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Joe
And, of course, John 14:6 ; Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me.
John 8:32 ; And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
2 Timothy 3:6,7 ; For of this sort are they.... Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 2:2 ; And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
1 John 3:19 ; And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
Yes, there is indeed truth. Matthew 7:14 ; Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Joe
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,263
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From: N. Florida - The "No 4x4
Please froward the authentication references for the text you quote.
I would like to examine them for authenticity.
(that is not a wisecrack or intended as offensive - just bluntly illustrative of an applicable concept)
I would like to examine them for authenticity.
(that is not a wisecrack or intended as offensive - just bluntly illustrative of an applicable concept)
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,263
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From: N. Florida - The "No 4x4
Originally posted by Lazy JW
King James Version of the Bible.
Joe
King James Version of the Bible.
Joe
I'm talking about the sources used to document the quotes as a factual account of real events.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 681
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From: Springfield, IL USA
I believe truth to be absolute. Let me define truth. Truth, according to one definition in Webster's New World Dictionary, is "conformity to fact". Using that definition, I believe anything that conforms to fact and can be scientifically demonstrated to conform is true and absolute.
That said, not everything in life conforms to fact. Therefore, many things that a person says are true or that they believe as true are actually only opinions that they hold as truths. That, does not make them true, only valued opinions.
That said, not everything in life conforms to fact. Therefore, many things that a person says are true or that they believe as true are actually only opinions that they hold as truths. That, does not make them true, only valued opinions.
New User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 23
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Of course one must first believe the Bible to be true, and to do that one must believe in God. Without God there is no truth, and we would be nothing but animals. In which case it would be ok for us to kill and eat each other. So what separates us from the animals?
Joe
Joe