View Poll Results: Do you believe in .....
Absolute truth...same is true for everyone, every circumstance, all the time.
6
27.27%
subjective truth....truth is relative to the circumstances around me.
16
72.73%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll
Absolute Truth - is there?
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,532
Likes: 5
From: Trussville, Alabama
Fisher,
IMO yes, there is absolute truth and yes their is "situational" truth.
I have had very interesting discussions (with Christian, Agnostic and Atheist) on this subject.
Leaving out the laws of physics, thermodynamics, etc. and discussing the human / relationship / interaction aspects of life:
Is there any absolute "truth/good/right" that is universal to all humanity.
Is there any absolute "wrong/evil/sin/or whatever you want to call it," that is universal to all humanity.
If there is, who or what defines it.
If there is no absolute "truth" that leaves right/wrong - truth/untruth to be determined by individuals, cultures, committees, etc. If that is assumed, then all are free to decide what is r/w - t/u. If you take this and run with it - you run head long into some serious problems - as much from a logic standpoint as from a religious/theological standpoint.
So, from my perspective, there HAS to be absolute truth.
As stated earlier, if you say "there is no absloute truth", the statement, since is it a statement of absolute truth, "cancels" itsself out. It is self defeating.
Only the statement "there is absolute truth" can be valid.
IMO yes, there is absolute truth and yes their is "situational" truth.
I have had very interesting discussions (with Christian, Agnostic and Atheist) on this subject.
Leaving out the laws of physics, thermodynamics, etc. and discussing the human / relationship / interaction aspects of life:
Is there any absolute "truth/good/right" that is universal to all humanity.
Is there any absolute "wrong/evil/sin/or whatever you want to call it," that is universal to all humanity.
If there is, who or what defines it.
If there is no absolute "truth" that leaves right/wrong - truth/untruth to be determined by individuals, cultures, committees, etc. If that is assumed, then all are free to decide what is r/w - t/u. If you take this and run with it - you run head long into some serious problems - as much from a logic standpoint as from a religious/theological standpoint.
So, from my perspective, there HAS to be absolute truth.
As stated earlier, if you say "there is no absloute truth", the statement, since is it a statement of absolute truth, "cancels" itsself out. It is self defeating.
Only the statement "there is absolute truth" can be valid.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,628
Likes: 0
From: Baileyton, TN
OK, you know my comment, so I will not make it, but explain it somewhat.
The absolute truth is to be strived for in all, but subjective truth is necessary from time to time, in particular circumstances. It is not humane to speak the truth to a dying person, for example..
"hey bud, you have been an *** thingy all you life and are going to hell," is not really a good bedside manner, so subjective truth would be appropriate. Also, it is necessary not to really annoy your neighbors by telling their kids anything True about Santa Claus... or the Easter Bunny, or even the Grinch.
Absolute truth would have to exclude every Thespian, or thespians should not exist... Think about the problems the Absolute would create, because life is not black and white, it is many shades of grey. In many circumstances, the truth, in Absolutum, would cause massive and maybe unsurmountable problems that subjectiveness would have avoided.
So, There are not enough options so again, I could not vote.
Theo
The absolute truth is to be strived for in all, but subjective truth is necessary from time to time, in particular circumstances. It is not humane to speak the truth to a dying person, for example..
"hey bud, you have been an *** thingy all you life and are going to hell," is not really a good bedside manner, so subjective truth would be appropriate. Also, it is necessary not to really annoy your neighbors by telling their kids anything True about Santa Claus... or the Easter Bunny, or even the Grinch.
Absolute truth would have to exclude every Thespian, or thespians should not exist... Think about the problems the Absolute would create, because life is not black and white, it is many shades of grey. In many circumstances, the truth, in Absolutum, would cause massive and maybe unsurmountable problems that subjectiveness would have avoided.
So, There are not enough options so again, I could not vote.
Theo
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
From: WA
Absolute truth is in one's mind. That is, based on the information available, one can decide if something is true at the time. With added information, however, one might find he or she was mistaken and the truth is something different. therefore beliefs need to be frequently re-examined. Ethics is a similar quandary. Truth is a black and white concept, or at least should be. Situational truth and ethics are the downfall of societies. You have some set of beliefs that you must make a decision on. To not make the decision is a problem called 'analysis paralysis' and gets people hurt and killed.
For example, I felt Jimmy Carter was a spineless president and a disgrace based on the Iranian thingy. New knowledge leads me to believe he simply had the huevos to act on his beliefs and deserves my utmost respect. I truly think he had too much knowledge and did not want to get backed into a corner and have to make Iran a smoking hole in the ground. Basically, he knew what he was doin' the whole time and just did not know how to solve the problem. In fact, he is the only modern politician I can name who does what he says he will. Thus, absolute truth is a constantly changing concept.
For example, I felt Jimmy Carter was a spineless president and a disgrace based on the Iranian thingy. New knowledge leads me to believe he simply had the huevos to act on his beliefs and deserves my utmost respect. I truly think he had too much knowledge and did not want to get backed into a corner and have to make Iran a smoking hole in the ground. Basically, he knew what he was doin' the whole time and just did not know how to solve the problem. In fact, he is the only modern politician I can name who does what he says he will. Thus, absolute truth is a constantly changing concept.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
From: West Texas
absolute truth in my opinion comes from some outside authoratitive figure....for those of you that believe...a "God".
Subjective truth in my opinion is something that you look at and take what you know about all that is invovled and make a decision on it.
that being said here are a few absolutes (waxy..this is for you)
If you run your truck out of gas, it will stop.
If you drop something, it will fall.
Adultry is wrong.
As sinjin said, we will all die.
I'd like to give more, but it then comes down to your "belief system if you will....ie:
if you believe that abortion is wrong...then nothing justifies it.
if you believe that murder is wrong...then nothing allows for it.
if you believe that divorce is wrong...then its wrong in all cases.
If you believe that lying is wrong...then it is always wrong.
of course...you would expect this I'm sure....but I believe that the Bible is the "absolute truth". Therefore as in one of my earlier posts I believe that abortion is wrong....I hope I NEVER have to deal with this situation, but that includes if the woman is raped or if it costs her life.....this was a hard pill to swallow at first. but at the same time...we have to define our beliefs by something. And I don't want something that is true one day and not the next. It in no way makes situations easy..as the case with the lady in Florida on a feeding tube...but it does make the decision based on something you believe.
Subjective truth in my opinion is something that you look at and take what you know about all that is invovled and make a decision on it.
that being said here are a few absolutes (waxy..this is for you)
If you run your truck out of gas, it will stop.
If you drop something, it will fall.
Adultry is wrong.
As sinjin said, we will all die.
I'd like to give more, but it then comes down to your "belief system if you will....ie:
if you believe that abortion is wrong...then nothing justifies it.
if you believe that murder is wrong...then nothing allows for it.
if you believe that divorce is wrong...then its wrong in all cases.
If you believe that lying is wrong...then it is always wrong.
of course...you would expect this I'm sure....but I believe that the Bible is the "absolute truth". Therefore as in one of my earlier posts I believe that abortion is wrong....I hope I NEVER have to deal with this situation, but that includes if the woman is raped or if it costs her life.....this was a hard pill to swallow at first. but at the same time...we have to define our beliefs by something. And I don't want something that is true one day and not the next. It in no way makes situations easy..as the case with the lady in Florida on a feeding tube...but it does make the decision based on something you believe.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Absolute truth is impossible -- if based on human reasoning and logic. The only absolute truth is from God, who cannot lie and cannot be counseled.
Titus 1:2-4 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
Isaiah 40:13-14 13 Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, Or as His counselor has taught Him?
14 With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him, And taught Him in the path of justice? Who taught Him knowledge, And showed Him the way of understanding?
Also, it was implied that the laws of science and physics might be measurements of truth. I’d like to throw in the thought that if they are, they are relative and not absolute. I site the example of 2 Kings chapter 20: verses 8-11, where God turned back the clock by moving the earth backwards to reset the sundial back 10 degrees:
2 Kings 20: 9-11 9 Then Isaiah said, "This is the sign to you from the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing which He has spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees or go backward ten degrees?"
10 And Hezekiah answered, "It is an easy thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees; no, but let the shadow go backward ten degrees."
11 So Isaiah the prophet cried out to the LORD, and He brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down on the sundial of Ahaz.
So if someone where to define truth as having a characteristic of being unchangeable, then the laws of gravity and motion stands suspect of being relatively true, and not absolute [From God's view point, not mans.]
But God, who created all things, is unchangeable, and stands as the only example of absolute truth
Hebrews 13: 8 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Mathew 24:35 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Again, to comply with the Copyright laws as requested on page ii of my Bible:
[Scripture taken from the New King James Version. Copyright 1979, 1980, 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by Permission. All rights reserved.]
Titus 1:2-4 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
Isaiah 40:13-14 13 Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, Or as His counselor has taught Him?
14 With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him, And taught Him in the path of justice? Who taught Him knowledge, And showed Him the way of understanding?
Also, it was implied that the laws of science and physics might be measurements of truth. I’d like to throw in the thought that if they are, they are relative and not absolute. I site the example of 2 Kings chapter 20: verses 8-11, where God turned back the clock by moving the earth backwards to reset the sundial back 10 degrees:
2 Kings 20: 9-11 9 Then Isaiah said, "This is the sign to you from the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing which He has spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees or go backward ten degrees?"
10 And Hezekiah answered, "It is an easy thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees; no, but let the shadow go backward ten degrees."
11 So Isaiah the prophet cried out to the LORD, and He brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down on the sundial of Ahaz.
So if someone where to define truth as having a characteristic of being unchangeable, then the laws of gravity and motion stands suspect of being relatively true, and not absolute [From God's view point, not mans.]
But God, who created all things, is unchangeable, and stands as the only example of absolute truth
Hebrews 13: 8 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Mathew 24:35 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Again, to comply with the Copyright laws as requested on page ii of my Bible:
[Scripture taken from the New King James Version. Copyright 1979, 1980, 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by Permission. All rights reserved.]
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 0
From: Calgary Canada
Sorry guys, but a belief system, the Bible and God, are NOT absolute truths unless you DEFINE them to be.
Otherwise, they're far from it.
The only two I agree with so far are the ones posted by sinjin.
Waxy
Otherwise, they're far from it.
The only two I agree with so far are the ones posted by sinjin.
Waxy
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 0
From: Calgary Canada
Originally posted by fisher_of_man
that being said here are a few absolutes (waxy..this is for you)
1 - If you run your truck out of gas, it will stop.
2- If you drop something, it will fall.
3 - Adultry is wrong.
As sinjin said, we will all die.
that being said here are a few absolutes (waxy..this is for you)
1 - If you run your truck out of gas, it will stop.
2- If you drop something, it will fall.
3 - Adultry is wrong.
As sinjin said, we will all die.
2- What if I'm in outer space? What if it's a balloon filled with helium?
3- What if both partners consent to it ie - swingers (this one is a belief only, kind of a bad example)
Waxy
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 0
From: Calgary Canada
Theo,
Does the fact that the truth hurts make it any more absolute or subjective?
I don't really understand your reply.
From what I understand, your point is that there is absolute truth, but since it could have negative repercussions, it should be ignored and we should deal in subjective truth.
Is that the jist of it?
I think Dono might be looking for a press secretary.
Waxy
Does the fact that the truth hurts make it any more absolute or subjective?
I don't really understand your reply.
From what I understand, your point is that there is absolute truth, but since it could have negative repercussions, it should be ignored and we should deal in subjective truth.
Is that the jist of it?
I think Dono might be looking for a press secretary.
Waxy