changing to 4 wheel drive questions
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Near Los Angeles
changing to 4 wheel drive questions
I have a 75 F250 2x4. I have found a 75 F250 4x4. Since the 4x is a salvage truck, I was considering changing my 2x to a 4x, using the 4x for parts.
I'm wondering if it is a straight up swap of parts, or if there is a diff. in the frames, etc., that would require some serious fabrication.
Thanks for any and all help.
I'm wondering if it is a straight up swap of parts, or if there is a diff. in the frames, etc., that would require some serious fabrication.
Thanks for any and all help.
Moderator & parts slinger
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
Easiest way is to do a body swap. 2wd body onto the 4wd frame. The 2wd frame does not have the places to just bolt on the 4wd components. IMO there would be some serious fabrication to make it work. Did you get a title with the 4wd truck?
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,808
Likes: 2,604
From: The Shenandoah Valley
It would be easy to compare them, making copious notes, some study pics, a tape measure. You'll quickly learn the important parts, holes, etc. I know for instance, front crossmember location, front suspension, etc is different. Frame swap is likely the easiest way, and don't forget the vin stamping on the rt frame rail ... something to maybe explore before hand ... with DMV. Might be easiest to title the result using the vin of the 4x4 frame.
Moderator & parts slinger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 50,188
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
Some 2wd to 4wd conversion advice from a very experienced FTE member.
"There is nothing nuts and bolts about a 4wd conversion, there is not a thing that is bolt on or swappable. The engine cross members are entirely different, and this means that if an un molested truck is what you are after, it will be impossible to create one with a 2wd platform.The 2wd will have to be lifted quite a way to clear the front diff. 2wd trucks are coil sprung and most F250 4wd's are leaf sprung. None of the suspension items are even close to the same, so you will be fabricating or modifying some original 4wd stuff to work.
Steering systems are entirely different as well, so you will be upgrading that too. My last conversion with leafs ran me several thousand dollars, and that was with the work that I performed for free. The difference in sale values between a 4wd and 2wd are minimal, and the 4wd conversion is hardly justifiable.
Well the frames are similar, with a few exceptions. The frame horns are slightly different, and the frame widths aft of the cab are different from 73 to 77 trucks. The frame rise is also slightly different, but this is not a show stopper and does not make much difference one the fabrication begins.
Now the important question is whether or not you will be using a coils springs or a leaf spring. It is possible to install a 78/9 radius arm and suspension. Not a big deal really, and with a standard cab this is reasonable. Not quite as easy with a super cab and or crew cab. The 2wd frames are not cut for the shackle pivot, and they do not have the provisions for a spring hanger, but again, this is not a deal breaker. Installing a pivot is just a tedious process, accuracy is key.
Ok, so next is the transfer case. You have two choices, install a married case, and this requires the proper transmission. Might find some difficulty making or modifying an output shaft to accommodate the early C6 and a married transfer case. So then the next option is to find a divorced transfer case, and install this. You will have to make up a cross member, but then you will have to get creative with the shifter linkage. See the 4wd trans will have an adapter or tailshaft with a pivot for a typical 205 shifter. Fabrication is the only limiting factor here.
Next and final factor will be the speedo. See your speedo works from the trans, so that being the case, you will have to get a speed reference from the t-case. If you do not, the speedo will read twice as fast when you put the case in low range. But you will be in 4 low so who cares how fast you are going.
As mentioned the steering box will have to be relocated, and the truck will require some lift. That engine crossmember has limited clearance so you will be looking at some lift to even clear it. The other option would be to remove it and replace it with a tubular unit."
"There is nothing nuts and bolts about a 4wd conversion, there is not a thing that is bolt on or swappable. The engine cross members are entirely different, and this means that if an un molested truck is what you are after, it will be impossible to create one with a 2wd platform.The 2wd will have to be lifted quite a way to clear the front diff. 2wd trucks are coil sprung and most F250 4wd's are leaf sprung. None of the suspension items are even close to the same, so you will be fabricating or modifying some original 4wd stuff to work.
Steering systems are entirely different as well, so you will be upgrading that too. My last conversion with leafs ran me several thousand dollars, and that was with the work that I performed for free. The difference in sale values between a 4wd and 2wd are minimal, and the 4wd conversion is hardly justifiable.
Well the frames are similar, with a few exceptions. The frame horns are slightly different, and the frame widths aft of the cab are different from 73 to 77 trucks. The frame rise is also slightly different, but this is not a show stopper and does not make much difference one the fabrication begins.
Now the important question is whether or not you will be using a coils springs or a leaf spring. It is possible to install a 78/9 radius arm and suspension. Not a big deal really, and with a standard cab this is reasonable. Not quite as easy with a super cab and or crew cab. The 2wd frames are not cut for the shackle pivot, and they do not have the provisions for a spring hanger, but again, this is not a deal breaker. Installing a pivot is just a tedious process, accuracy is key.
Ok, so next is the transfer case. You have two choices, install a married case, and this requires the proper transmission. Might find some difficulty making or modifying an output shaft to accommodate the early C6 and a married transfer case. So then the next option is to find a divorced transfer case, and install this. You will have to make up a cross member, but then you will have to get creative with the shifter linkage. See the 4wd trans will have an adapter or tailshaft with a pivot for a typical 205 shifter. Fabrication is the only limiting factor here.
Next and final factor will be the speedo. See your speedo works from the trans, so that being the case, you will have to get a speed reference from the t-case. If you do not, the speedo will read twice as fast when you put the case in low range. But you will be in 4 low so who cares how fast you are going.
As mentioned the steering box will have to be relocated, and the truck will require some lift. That engine crossmember has limited clearance so you will be looking at some lift to even clear it. The other option would be to remove it and replace it with a tubular unit."
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Near Los Angeles
I appreciate all the replies. Thank you. But holy smoley, I have a strong running 2x, but like the stance of a 4x, which raises the front end quite a bit. Because I like that look, and wanted to raise the front, I installed extended cab coils. Of course my camber is way out and will eat my tires. I need new tires and don't want to revert to oem coils.
I found https://autofab.com/product/1965-197...-economy-lift/ this lift kit and can/will make it to 5", but that, imo, is a heck of a price to pay for a higher front end.
If there is an easier, less expensive way to do this, I'd love to hear about it.
BTW, the donor truck is a salvage, and, since I'm in Cal., I would have to have to have the entire truck checked out, and since my truck is completely modified, that would be a major headache.
Also, the donor is a b block and my dd is an inline 6. Again, major changes.
I know this sounds a bit 'out there', but I'm considering going with the 4x frame, with the front differential and suspension, and oem steering, but leaving the front drive shaft off, and without the transfer case. In essence, using my existing 2x drive train with a front 4x differential and 4x steering.
I found https://autofab.com/product/1965-197...-economy-lift/ this lift kit and can/will make it to 5", but that, imo, is a heck of a price to pay for a higher front end.
If there is an easier, less expensive way to do this, I'd love to hear about it.
BTW, the donor truck is a salvage, and, since I'm in Cal., I would have to have to have the entire truck checked out, and since my truck is completely modified, that would be a major headache.
Also, the donor is a b block and my dd is an inline 6. Again, major changes.
I know this sounds a bit 'out there', but I'm considering going with the 4x frame, with the front differential and suspension, and oem steering, but leaving the front drive shaft off, and without the transfer case. In essence, using my existing 2x drive train with a front 4x differential and 4x steering.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
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From: Near Los Angeles
What bothers me about the lift kit is that they heat ( I assume) and bend the I beams, thereby eliminating positive caster. That would be good for about ... maybe 2 years, until the coil springs begin to settle a bit and create negative camber.
Either I go with the kit and be forced to pull my I beams every couple of years for re-bending, or hope that it is possible to buy the high lift coils once more.
That is why a 4x setup appeals to me. But either way, it is going to cost me.
Either I go with the kit and be forced to pull my I beams every couple of years for re-bending, or hope that it is possible to buy the high lift coils once more.
That is why a 4x setup appeals to me. But either way, it is going to cost me.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,808
Likes: 2,604
From: The Shenandoah Valley
You're not thinking of adding weight so I don't see why you'd expect good front coil springs to collapse in 2 years. If it doesn't drop, there'll be no need to re-bend the eye beams after the first time ... will there?. Plus, you'll have less weight to push without a front drive axle. 
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
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From: San Jose, CA
And even if the coils did sag, it's cheaper and less intrusive to just buy new coils. Say, $150 vs $500 or so? Seems like a good argument for just renewing the springs to me.
But like said, good coils should not sag much, if at all, in many years. I've had sagged out coils and leaves, but none of them took less than ten years of easy use. I say "easy" meaning i did not load them up very hard or very often. But I didn't baby them either, taking them off-road and flexing out often.
Probably why most big name brand coils (and sometimes even the leaf springs) have lifetime warranties on them.
Keep the receipts and you may never have to buy new springs again.
Paul
But like said, good coils should not sag much, if at all, in many years. I've had sagged out coils and leaves, but none of them took less than ten years of easy use. I say "easy" meaning i did not load them up very hard or very often. But I didn't baby them either, taking them off-road and flexing out often.
Probably why most big name brand coils (and sometimes even the leaf springs) have lifetime warranties on them.
Keep the receipts and you may never have to buy new springs again.
Paul
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Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
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Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
Good point, guys. I'm now negotiating with AutoFab about possibly getting one of their economy kits since I already have aftermarket drop radius arm brackets.
thanks for all the feedback.
thanks for all the feedback.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
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From: Near Los Angeles
Hey guys. I noticed that my extended cab springs (on my standard cab F250) have dropped/sagged a couple of inches. The tires I now have on it lasted for more then 50k miles, The caster may still be out a bit, but the tires last and the truck drives perfectly, so I'll be staying with what I have, just replacing the tires with new Michelans.
Somewhere down the line I may spend the close to 3k to buy the lift kit, but for now I can't deal with the expense nor the down time.
Cheers.
Somewhere down the line I may spend the close to 3k to buy the lift kit, but for now I can't deal with the expense nor the down time.
Cheers.
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