I’ve been fighting with the same dynamic over the last couple of days. I could save a bunch by switching back to an ICE truck for the next couple of years, but my fuel cost would go up by about $250 per month because it costs pennies to feed my EV. Lightning owners are having the same rapid depreciation that Tesla owners are because the market is still adjusting to adequate supply.

I almost had a deal for a 2022 Lighting Lariat with 10K miles for $60K yesterday. Depending upon when purchased, that owner could have lost over $25K over those few months and miles of ownership.

 

$3000 a year in fuel still gets you about 5+ years of driving an F-150 instead of a Lightning until the overall costs of ownership start to come in line.

I'm not advocating that one makes a decision for one type of vehicle over another. I can afford a Lightning which means I can also afford a diesel Superduty which is a truck that would make me very very happy. But affording either ridiculously priced truck and making either purchase make sense is where it all gets muddy for me.

I'll tell you which car is getting my attention right now and that's the Hyundai Venue. For under $25K, you get their amazing warranty, great MPG's, adequate power for commuting and it actualy looks like it's a useful small car. Let's package all of those attributes into an EV and I'm sold.

 

 

That is a tremendous value for the Venue, indeed, especially for a full fledged crossover that doesn't require labor in Mexico. The fact that they also sell it in India means durability would be a design priority.

 

Here locally there's been a rash of Hyundai and Kia's due an exceptionally easily defeated steering column key lock---many early teenagers (13+) have been arrested, some after causing significant bodily injury and death to others. I wonder if the latest offering's from those two manufacturer's have addresses that as of yet?

I do agree the Venue seems a great price point---well worth a look if an ICE of that nature is of interest.

 

Not intending to derail this very polite and informative EV discussion but the Venue is Hyundai's answer to the Mitzubishi Mirage and if you look a little deeper you'll see that Nissan offers the Versa starting at $17,xxx. In Nissan's case, to get the safety equipment, you need to move into a more expensive model and that also gets you an auto trans.....now you're looking at $20K+.

The auto industry is excluding the lower income brackets with regards to EV sales.

 

I believe that the auto industry for the most part has quit trying to appeal to the low income market and has left it to the secondary/used retailers. If you've seen a Drive Time ad lately it's clear that they are targeting that demographic.

That's too bad though, especially early 20s and senior citizens. Many would still like a new car with a warranty, but have limited income. Those, and the people in the middle with low wages, or a single income family who needs 2 cars, are just going to get stuck with high mile used. Right now it seems most manufacturers are okay with that.

However, you can look back in time and see where we had recessions, the high end models went away, lower end trim lines were devised, rebates were increased, special value packages, etc. What drives this more than anything is demand. When sales are affected do to price, the manufacturers will come up with a way to cut costs. Of course that may mean not getting a Platinum next time, but nobody needs the high end trim packages anyway.

As far as EVs go from established auto manufactures, looks like the consumer drives demand more than anything else, and they have spoken with their wallets.

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/26/...ren-t-working/

 

Many people who are not inherent anti-EV but don't agree with the prevailing high-end, high impact, high mass approach (like me) often get ridiculed with a combination of "you don't understand how EVs work" and "the next break through is just 5 years away so paying the rich and upper middle class people tens of thousands to get EVs while aggressively banning ICE now is fine".

 

This the moment that the Koreans and the lesser japanese brands have been waiting for. I believe those brands will take advantage while even Toyota and Honda are thinking about moving up market. While no one was looking, the Palisades and Tellurides has converted a lot of well heeled women to believers. Sure, the theft issue is there for the older cheaper cars but it is not stopping people from buying the newer ones.

But even today, I can drive one town over and buy a new Camry for 26k that is ready to be sold. That is a terrific value for a new basically full size car that is in most measures, the bench mark for reliable appliances.

 

I think a big part of this is how these legacy automakers went about it.

Switching to an EV requires a leap of faith because they're asking consumers to completely rethink the second-biggest purchase of their life. My first EV was from a company that only made EVs, and the entire ownership experience was designed around that. Their sales reps knew about what they were selling, service techs knew how to fix them, and the Supercharger network has become almost ubiquitous with outstanding reliability. Contrast that with existing automakers trying to sell them with clueless salesmen, service departments without certified techs, lackluster trip planning software, and untrustworthy third-party charging networks. That frustration drove me back to Tesla after only six months, which made the whole thing an expensive mistake.

With the exception of Toyota, they're all making good cars. But they're more expensive than their gas-powered competitors and deliver a sub-par experience. I think leadership has the right idea, but Farley, Barra, etc. must be smashing their heads against their desks over factors they can't control. Getting dealerships to provide a great EV sale/service experience is like pushing a boulder up Mount Everest, and third-party charging networks are atrocious. The average consumer doesn't care that JimBob Ford in Wheretheheckistan is a separate business from Ford, and the 45-minute wait at the only operational charger within an hour's drive ruins the whole trip.

These factors are getting better, but they put the cart before the horse. Dealerships and charging networks have to be there for consumers to buy-in at a large scale. They tried to scale production before the other factors would enable demand. Tesla is building more and more cars every week, and they're selling what they make. I'm sure Ford and GM will get there, though. I'm willing to own a Lightning now that prices have declined and they have access to the Supercharger network.

It's a shame it's happening this late. I would have saved thousands if this happened a year ago when I got my Model Y.

 

More EV news...

Car Companies Are Suddenly Super Worried About the Future of EVs (msn.com)

 

It would be ironic if Toyota does deliver on its solid state batteries , put a small one in their Corolla Hybrid and make it a plug-in so it becomes the 25k 80% electric car that the domestic companies should have been working on.

 

Not much news in that article. This author’s previous work was about NASA being afraid of the ISS “careening out of control” and crashing into people. This one doesn’t look much better.

GM has had more trouble from their EVs than anyone else with the Bolt recall and the Ultium platform they seem incapable of getting to production. Ford built a mainstream pick up priced like an imported luxury model, but wonders why they can’t sell 1 million of them Meanwhile, in Korea…

Hyundai Motor Sees Record Profit In Q3, Keeps Its EV Plans On Track

Some of you remember I had a Kia EV6 prior to my Model Y. The Kia/Hyundai group has shown they can deliver excellence at a good value. Is this the point where domestic automakers cede the ground to imports? I doubt it. Recent remarks from Farley and Ford suggest they know what they need to do, but aren’t there yet.

 

The domestic brands already ceded affordable small cars and large swaths of small to midsize crossovers to the Koreans on top of losing two generations of urban and suburban drivers to Toyota and Honda. GM is selling Chevrolet and Buick branded Korean made vehicles en mass. Nothing surprises me anymore.

The cynic in me says Ford is fine with being a pickup and some large cross over company. With the next Corsair coming from China and many of their popular vehicles made in Mexico, margin is the goal now, not being a full line car maker.

 

I read an article today about GM moving forward with developing a new generation of V8 engine. The CEO of GM has been vocal lately about being overly optimistic about EV timeline production targets and ceded to the fact that ICE is what customers want and what GM should continue to put an effort into. All of these statement from so many OEMs recently seem to indicate that there will not by a full transition/pivot to all electric anytime soon, if ever.

I agree though, that EV development should continue, just without bureaucratic agencies or someone who won an election forcing deadlines. Ultimately the people who buy new cars should decide what they want, and vote with their wallets. When someone builds a better mousetrap, then the old style ones will become obsolete, that's the same with motor vehicles. And it's the free market that should make that decision.