Hello everyone,

my name is Patrick. I'm a 35 year old guy from Germany.
Living on the landside, I'm thinking of buying an old truck as a working truck. (Going to the woods, carrying house & garden construction material, etc)
Especially the Dentsides got me. Love the tough and solid look ... and as far as i read, they are.
Furthermore what I like about old cars is the lack of all that new gimmicks and electronical stuff that beeps, gives you advise what to do or what not to do, and causes issues often.

I did some internet research to this point to get all the variations and specifications about the different models. It's kinda hard to get reliable information as I only can read english threads, youtube, sites, etc. Sometimes information are different or contradictory. Germany is not a Pick-up truck country, especially the old ones, at all, what makes it even harder. But further and further I have some idea what to go for regarding my needs.
Now I will check the forum and see if I can get some more details or can verify my thoughts.

My key wishes:

Single cab
Long bed (Styleside)
4wd (are there options between permanent 4wd or switchable from 2 to 4wd?)
manual shifting
Loading capacity at least 1000 kg (so it has to be F150 minimum, right?)
V8 engine (In Germany V8 engines stand for reliabilty, durabilty. Is this fact?. I read something about FE engines. Are they more solid?)
front disc brakes
gas tank not in the cab.
the toolbox on the right side of the bed.
Good situation regarding spareparts (especially because I have to order them from a few miles away )

I thought about a F250 which has the loading capacity. but:
- is heavier in general (consumption/gas prices is a topic here)
- and has more differences in detail. I read about an narrower frame, but just the highboy? Or every F250? Or a different bed mounting, etc..

Because of those differences and as metioned getting spareparts easily, without nights on investigations, my conclusion was not to gor for a F250 (Highboy)
Or the other way round: A F150 is more like an F100 and therefore there are more possibilities with spareparts?

Or am I wrong?


Nice to be here and hoping to get out of the specification fog..
Patrick
(who hopes he's understood)

 

Welcome Patrick,
You picked a tough truck that is easy to work on. I hope you get one like you want. Good luck!

 

HI Patrick and welcome to the forum, great place to get your questions answered (and certainly by folks more knowledgeable than I !)

Good choice on the dentsides as they are the best of the bunch, I've owned 3 in my 40 years of driving

Couple comments on your wishlist:

I wouldn't be concerned whether it's a F150 or F250 - both have plentiful parts to find, these were never high mileage vehicles to being with so any difference due to weight is negligible. Focus on getting a good solid one (no/low rust).

Parts between F100,F150 and F250 are mostly interchangeable except for some of the suspension parts (you can look at LMCTRUCK.COM's online catalog to get a feel for what parts are universal and differences between models)

"highboy" can have a diverse meaning - some say it's all F250's from 73-77 1/2 but I think of it as the trucks that had the narrower frame as you mentioned. some of those parts might be a little more challenging to source but shouldn't be a deterrent. Keep in mind there are guys on this forum that have their own inventory of parts and can help steer to you find what you need. (websites like Dennis Carpenter, Bronco Graveyard, Wild Horses, LMC Truck and others have a lot of parts for these trucks)

toolbox in the bed was not a common feature on the trucks so they can be expensive and hard to find parts for.

Gas tank in the cab for the most part stopped in '73 but the heavier duty models could of had them I think up to about '77. (I've only owned 78's so others more knowing than I)

Good luck on your journey !

 

Willkommen bei FTE, Patrick!

 

Check out this thread for a dentside living in Germany! My only advice to find a truck that is as mechanically sound as possible so that you don’t have to source parts.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...n-project.html

 

Thanks for all your replies so far.

Just an addition: I focus on the years till `77. The '78 and '79 design is a bit too modern for me.

Are there 4wd F250 from '73 to '77 which are no Highboys (which has the most differences at least)? Do the 4wd F250 in that period all have the divorced transfer case, narrower frame, etc. or was that a special setting and there are "normal" 4wd F250? I didn*t get that one exactly on my research.

The thread with the german Dentside Dave is great, thanks a lot. MrGGermany is not that far away where i live. Maybe that can be helpful.

 

Welcome to the forum. I'm in Canada but Ford F series trucks are as common up here as they are in the United States. The only caveat is that most replacement parts I order come out of the US which means the cost of shipping adds up. Usually if I order parts from LMC Truck or Dennis Carpenter, I will make a list and do a big order all at once to help save on shipping vs a bunch of small orders.

All Highboy F250 4x4 trucks came with the in-cab fuel tank as standard (at least 73-77 versions, not sure about the earlier bumpsides). That is one of the easiest ways to determine a genuine Highboy. Lots of guys will say they have a Highboy but if there is no fuel cap visible on the rear of the cab, its not a Highboy.

You can easily remove the in cab fuel tank if you want and install a factory F350 fuel tank between the frame rails at the rear of the truck. This is a common modification. Funny enough, my current F350 2wd came from the factory with dual rear tanks mounted between the frame rails and the previous owner added a third in-cab fuel tank so go figure . I have not had any issues with the in-cab fuel tank and same with my previous 77 F250 Highboy. They work just fine and I have never heard any safety concerns although I guess the potential is there. I always figured that if the cab got hit hard enough to rupture the in-cab fuel tank, you are probably already dead anyway.

Yes, Highboys came with the narrower frame, basically they used a 1 ton F350 frame which is narrower to accommodate dual rear wheels on the 1 ton models. They also use a divorced transfer case, meaning it is not mounted directly to the rear of the transmission but is connected via a short drive shaft. While an F150 4x4 would probably serve you just fine, if you are going to go to the expense and trouble of buying and shipping a truck to Germany, I would go for the Highboy as they are basically the Holy Grail of Ford 4x4 pickup trucks. Depending on the engine, there will be no difference in fuel economy between an F100 and an F350 as they are all hard on gas.

The only real downside to the Highboy that I can think of is the factory power steering "assist" system. Basically, they came from the factory with a manual steering box and then they added a power ram assist using a hydraulic cylinder mounted on the front axle and a control valve mounted between the pitman arm and the steering knuckle. The system is overly complicated with plenty of hydraulic hoses to leak and parts to wear resulting is sloppy steering when worn. Fortunately there are kits available to convert to an integral power steering box if need be and lots of information available on the net on how to do the conversion.

Parts are still readily available for all models so I wouldn't worry about that. FE motors were good if you get the 390. I personally don't have any love for the 360 but if it runs good, that/s really all that matters. These are not race trucks. 77 models were available with the 400 Modified engine. Also not a powerhouse but the nice thing about the 400 engine is it uses the same bell housing bolt pattern as the 460 which will more or less bolt right in to replace the 400. Same bad fuel economy but at least the 460 gives you some power in return.

The best years for the Highboy in my opinion were the 76 and 77 models as they came with the open knuckle front axle (ie you can see the front axle u-joints when you look at the ends of the axle) and front disc brakes. The only real difference is 76 came from the factory with the FE motor while in 77 they switched to the Modified. That being said, any year of Highboy is a nice truck and if you need discs on the front, there are always ways to convert them.

Ford offered full time and part time 4x4 on pretty much all 4x4 models. You want part time as it came with the better New Process 205 gear drive transfer case while the full time 4x4s came with the NP 203 chain drive transfer case which is heavier and not as bullet proof. The full time transfer case did not offer any real advantage and mostly served to reduce already dismal fuel mileage by another mile or to per gallon. If need be you can leave your front hubs locked in with a part time 4x4 and shift between 2wd and 4wd from the cab as needed on the fly unless of course you want to use low range in which case you must come to a stop first.

The F150 4x4 is also a nice truck. The main differences (other than load capacity of course) is that they came with coil spring front suspension vs leaf spring so they potentially ride a little nicer, they use an integral power steering box system and of course, they came with fuel tanks mounted between the frame rails. Obviously they have smaller axles (9 inch rear ) with 5 lug wheels vs the 8 lug wheels and full floating Dana 60 rear axle on the 250. I think engine choices were virtually the same regardless of F series. The F250 is definitely the better choice in terms of load capacity if you are actually going to put it to work and haul heavy loads of firewood.

Hope this information helps. As you can probably tell, I might be slightly biased towards the F250 Highboy but they are all nice trucks with positives and negatives depending on the model and its intended use. Good luck with your search!

 

Hello Patrick,
I also live in Germany (93161 Sinzing) and bought a 1977 F250 in 2017. I don't know what your budget is, but since i bought my truck the prices have risen by quite a lot. Most of those trucks are from people that buy them in the US, ship them over here and resell them for 100% or more profit. Then there are a couple things that need to be changed so you can get TÜV, all of which costs another 1000-2000 unless you do it yourself. I'm sure there are 4 wheel drive trucks over here, but they are not nearly as common as they are in the US. A really big expense will be parts. There are a couple of German sites for new parts, but they don't have everything you might need and they, of course, add a percentage to their prices on top of actual cost, shipping and Zoll. It's better to order from the US online or from people here on the forum (77&79 F250 is the first person i talk to), but then you have the wait time for shipping and the shipping cost and Zoll to deal with. There are sometimes people selling parts on ebay or eBay Kleinanzeigen. One more thing to consider is..... Do you have room to store your truck? My f250 is 5.5 meters long! Look around on here and ask any questions you want because the guys are always willing to help out and share their experience.
Ich bin Amerikaner, aber ich kann auch Deutsch reden wenn du Hilfe brauchst oder was nicht verstehst. Aber Ich werde wetten dass dein Englisch besser als mein Deutsch ist.
Servus aus Bayern!

 

Thanks for the infomation!

During my research I often read, that the F250 Highboy is the "Holy grail" as you call it.
But all the differences, also the in cab tank and the other facts you mentioned, made me hesitate. My concerns regarding the in cab tank were because of smoking and having some loading space instead in the cab, too.
Because of that I wondered if there was a normal F250 4x4, not having all these specials that a Highboy has.

I won't go for extreme heavy loads, just what you need for house & gardening, so I thought a F150 would be enough here.

Regarding the engine: It's ment to be cruising and not speeding, so the durability and reliabilty is most important.

Interesting info about the 2wd and 4wd. I don't need permanent 4wd. But we have muddy roads here with hills where a 4wd would be helpful if needed.

The point with the rims is a good one. I remember that I read that but forgot. 5 lug wheels seems to be the better choice because you have more options?


The plan is to import one on myself, for the reason you mentioned MrGGermany. And maybe then shipping the first and most important spareparts just in the truck. Have to figure out all the shipping stuff first.
If there are some things to do, which is pretty sure, I will do it mostly on my own.
Yes, I have some room, thanks for the hint
And thanks for your offer to translate. Vielleicht komme ich darauf zurück

 

The only option for an F250 4x4 between 73 and 77 (77 and 1/2 technically speaking) is the Highboy 4x4 with all its quirks and unique features. Smoking should not be a concern with the in-cab fuel tank as it is fully sealed from the interior and if it was an issue, there would be dozens of craters all over Canada and US from smokers turning their Highboys into fire-***** over the years ( just kidding...) That being said, obviously a fuel tank inside the cab is not the best option from a safety perspective and doubt it would be allowed today. The only real dis-advantage that I am all too familiar with, is the lack of storage space behind the seat. I considered removing the in-cab tank from by F350 for just that reason but then I would have a gaping hole in the side of my cab that I need to plug or patch with sheet metal. More trouble than its worth to me.

You could always opt for a 78 or 79 F250 4x4. Those years went to a regular width frame, integral power steering box and fuel tanks mounted between the frame rails as well as a "married" transfer case. In short, they more or less corrected all the shortcomings of the Highboy. The only difference cosmetically from earlier years is essentially the front grill design. I personally prefer the look of the 76-77 grills but they can also be easily retro-fitted to the 78-79 models. I have also considered doing that to my 78 F350 and still might down the road. Also, the 78-79 F250 4x4 had a much lower ride height from the factory so they did not look nearly as cool as the earlier "Highboy" trucks but they were probably also much more civilized to drive and obviously less orientated to severe off-road duty compared to the previous Highboy.

Whether you opt for a F150 or F250 4x4, go for one with part time 4 wheel drive and buy the nicest, cleanest rust free example you can afford. I don't imagine you see too many Ford F series trucks on the roads in Germany so you will definitely have a conversation piece when ever you park your truck.

 

I can confirm this statement. I get looks of amazement, smiles and thumbs up whenever I'm driving around!

 

Welcome. You can't go wrong with any of the 73-79 4x4. I think for your needs a F150 is sufficient. They all look great in my opinion.
good luck finding a good candidate to sail across the pond.
In my limited time in Germany, I can't imagine where you will find a parking space big enough for a ford truck. The streets in the towns are so narrow.

 

Not a single one around here
US cars in general are very rare, especially here on the landside. If you want to see one you have to go to the bigger cities. I agree that this probably will bring some conversation for sure, so does my '78 BMW with a sidecar.
I'm surprised that there is a Dentside in Regensburg. Wouldn't have thought that.

The roads are often narrow, thats right. But I would say that problem more often appears in towns or cities. Here on the landside of Bavaria is a bit more space. Even if the road itself is sometimes narrow, you can go besides in the dirt.. if you have the right ride.
And there is not that much traffic on itself. In case of thight gaps , the smaller car let pass the bigger one

.Nice one with the craters This really might not be that big issue..

I have to figure out if there is the option to get a '78 or '79 and switch the front grills, because some changes here in Germany are not allowed when you want to ride it officially as an "Oldtimer". That would bring some advantages.

Thanks so far, have a nice day
Patrick

 

If you want to have a 1000kg payload, which is over 1 ton you're going to have to get at least a dually. Old trucks from the 70s really had no payload capacity compared to a truck now. An f100 used to for real only be rated for 1/2 ton. Now a "half ton" truck has a payload of a ton in some cases.

 

Hi,

I found that (official?) Ford brochure and thought I got all the weights things right..
Page 11, Regular Cab, 8ft bed, F150 for example:
Deisred payload: 2245 lbs , what is something about 1000kg

https://www.xr793.com/wp-content/upl...rd-Pickups.pdf

Do I have a false interpretation of "Desired payload" ?