Source: https://www.carscoops.com/2022/07/fo...ery-packs/amp/

 

Yup, I read about this yesterday, and think it's a smart move. Tesla shifted their standard-range models to LFP batteries last year because they are lower in cost, but have a lower energy density. Which means they're perfect for a platform that's designed for more than one battery size because they can use the same volume of the higher-spec battery to contain a less-dense but lower-capacity LFP back. This would drop the cost even further from a physically smaller NCM battery. They're also sourcing them from CATL, which has rapidly grown to be a market leader.

This kind of innovation is why I never put much stock in the throngs of naysayers out there who insist that EVs can't become a mainstream option. Sure, sourcing some of these metals can be difficult and expensive when demand exceeds supply. But engineers aren't stupid, and there's usually more than one way to solve a problem.

 

Ford needs to solve the energy density and charge time issues, but they claim they've increased the battery life span, but don't say by how much.

I can't help but to recall the Olds 350 diesel fiasco that put a black eye on diesel engines for decades.

 

I have always wondered what idiot thought it would be a good idea to use a gas engine for diesel. To compare that with ev's is like comparing the space shuttle to Fred Flinstones car.

 

more than that they need to solve the problem of how to profitably sell an electric pickup that’s under 60k. They may be able to sell 60k crew cab trucks to suburban soccer dads but that’s not going to fly with the commercial and fleet users.

the 40k lightning pro “sold out” so quickly one has to wonder how many slots were available in the first place.

 

Getting back to the original topic. I don't understand the benefit of the "new" battery. Looks like it's just a run of the mill chemical storage battery with actually lower energy density and about the same mileage range as currently available so did I miss anything? What was the benefit other than a different toxic raw material to source. To be a mass market contender, EV's need a quick change battery pack with significantly higher energy density. It ain't likely to be a chemical storage battery. It will have to be some technology no-one has yet. Then we really will have something cool.

As for grid capacity, yeah we'll get there. But we ain't there yet and it will be a while. I don't understand the red letter "don't buy one" since a large chunk of the population can't afford one and have no place to charge one if they wanted one. Where do apartment owners charge their new EV? Right now that answer is no where practical.

 

If one lives where charging is not available, is it wise for one to buy an electric vehicle? Rhetorical question.

 

LFP batteries are a worthwhile thing because they lower the cost of an electric truck.

We’re seeing a lot of trolling in the Lightning forum who are only here to tell those of us who are interested why they’re a dumb idea. I think lots of cars on the road are lousy options, and my response as a consumer is to not buy one. I don’t go onto forums for said vehicles to tell everyone who spent their hard-earned money why they’re idiots for doing so.

The most frustrating thing for me to see as a moderator is when people get way out in the weeds with things. We’re a tech forum, not an electrical engineering one or Power Generation Enthusiasts. Whether or not local utilities can do their jobs is way beyond the scope of this pickup truck forum. That kind of discussion is only here for the reasons I addressed at the top of this post. In hindsight, it was a mistake for me to engage in that kind of discussion.

I’ll leave this up until the morning and clean the thread up. It should be about LFP batteries, snd I made the mistake of indulging an off-topic issue. I’m off to bed, have a good night everyone.

 

Solid state batteries are being developed and may be the next evolution in energy storage for an EV. Toyota has gambled/invested big time in this emerging technology (for large applications like EV) and has secured or is securing many patents pertaining to the energy storage method.

Time will tell and I will sit back and watch, learn, take notes and see what happens.

A long time and close family friend of ours lives and works in Philadelphia. She is in the market for a new vehicle to replace here aging and quickly deteriorating Chrysler sedan. I told her not to buy that thing...

I suggested an EV since her drive to work and the school for her son is about 20 miles one way. She owns a home in the city, but it is one of those row homes and there is no exterior outlet. There is no charging station or exterior outlet available for her to use at work either.

So, that is out and she is now looking at small hybrids like a Subaru Crosstrek.

We cannot afford an EV and I have concerns about the energy storage capabilities of a 10 year old EV. The data is not there yet, but I believe by the time my family is able to afford a used EV, the data will be there and we will make a financially smart decision for our intended use.

 

I think the biggest thing we all need is patience. Practical EV's are coming...hopefully in my life time. I'm actually looking as much or more to the products that will grow from EV's specifically better energy storage. For instance, we need the ability to store energy when we make it for times we can't make it...like with solar panels and windmills. We also need energy storage that's easier to transport and swap.

 

Okay, the thread has been cleaned up. 👍



These LFP batteries might make it cost-effective for them to sell more of the lower-end trucks. If that puts more trucks into more driveways of those shopping in the lower-end of the trim range, it'll be a huge win.

 

GM tasked Oldsmobile to get a diesel engine to the market in a short period of time and Olds delivered. When you have bean counters pushing completion dates on products, this is what you get. A boat anchor completed on schedule.

 

Based on the this thread title and a recent post by Tom about how his KIA EV6 will go from a charge of 10% to 80% in less than 20 minutes due to the 800v architecture, I started digging a bit further.

It seems most EV's are on a 400v architecture where only a few are on 800v and Lucid being on a proprietary 900v architecture.

Although, according to this article on Inside EVs, the EV industry will be making the move to an 800v architecture around 2025. I am not privy to the board meetings or business decisions Ford makes, but it would seem they should be shooting for the same timeline goals in order to stay competitive.

The difference between 800v and 400v is dramatic and worth waiting for in my opinion. Read for yourselves if you have a few minutes at the link above.

 

Hello all, new to this forum, this is a very interesting conversation, I've been watching the Solid State Bat development for some time now. Toyota has already announced a Solid State Bat hybrid for sale in 2025. They [Toyota] have several fully operational full sized prototypes driving all over Japan, now. Ford and BMW have teamed up to make solid state bats, and some of the top dogs at Ford have also said they'll have them in 2025! Full charge in 10 minutes, much lighter (as much as 2/3s less), huge reduction in Fire hazard! The most interesting part of the news story for me was, Ford's engineers are already figuring out how to utilize their current, wet Li bat manufacturing plant, being able to convert it over to the much better solid state bats! I'm in the Memphis Tn area, the new Blue Oval City, dedicated to the mfg of the Lightning is being built here Now, it is going to be a Huge plant. As soon as Ford is able to get the solid state bats up and running, and as they solve all the problems associated with the old wet tech, I'm guess the plant is going to be churning out Lightnings 24/7! This is the future.

 

Welcome to the FTE!

We appreciate you sharing your thoughts and comments with us. I too have been following the development of solid state batteries, mostly by Toyota. They have taken a strong business stance in filling for patents as they develop the technology.

I don't know if a consumer version of a solid state battery will be ready in 2025, but that is exciting to think about. Similarly, I had read about EV range being increased to the 500 - 550 mile range around 2025, so perhaps there is some insight there to ponder.

Today we went shopping and drove about 120 miles since we live in the country. As we stopped at a fuel station on the way out of town, it took me 198 seconds from the time I opened the door to the time I closed the door to fuel up to full from 1/8th tank. This brought the range of our 2016 Escape back to 450 - 500 miles.

I am not naive enough to think solid state batteries will get us to ultra fast (5 minutes or less) recharge rates in 2025, but it is a start.

Again, good to have you with us.