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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 09:31 AM
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Cold Start Issues

As a guy who's been dealing with this for a while I'm sure the first glance at the thread title leans one to think "not another one of these". Tried resolving these issues over a powerstroke.org but that place is a ghost town these days. Anyway, I'm here to tell my story and looking for diagnostic advice to help me resolve. Thanks in advance for your help.

My issue is the truck has a hard time starting in cold temps. I've gotten to where it will start on second time cranking, but still billows smoke like mad. We've come a long way because she used to not start below 40F, now she will start but billow smoke and not like it much. I'd like to correct the heavy smoke issue and long crank requirement.

Truck: 2000 F250, 7.3, 260K miles
15/40 synthetic oil with about 2K miles on it.
Minimal blowby, meaning the oiler filler cap turned over backwards vibrates off, doesn't blow off, and I can set a ping pong ball in the oil filler cap and it won't blow out.
I took ownership of the vehicle at 210K and it's always had cold start issues.

To begin with my mods all of which are within the last 5K miles
FF 160/0 injectors
KC 300x 63/68 .84 A/R Turbo
FRX
S&B Intake
4" Exhaust
Hydra with 1023 tunes
Bellowed Up-pipes
CT-3 Monitor

New in last 5K miles or less
Glow plugs - motorcraft
Glow Plug Relay - white rodgers
Glow plug harness - motorcraft
Starter - Mitsubishi 3.6kw
Batteries - 850 CCA
IPR - motorcraft
ICP - motorcraft

ICP and IPR are fine, here were the values at 66 Outside Temp
After startup at idle ( not warmed up)
IPR - 16
ICP - 760

At idle after warm up
IPR - 11
ICP - 500ish

Key on (Not starting)
IPR - 15
ICP - 0

Starting (after already warmed up to operating temp)
IPR - Ramps to 36
ICP - 1800-2135

GPs - ohm test good

Working from front pin to pin towards firewall
drivers side - 1.2, 1.2, 1.2,1.1
passengers side - 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, .9

Voltage across GPR good and working as it should.
I took starter in to have it evaluated and guy said it was worn out and would cost more to rebuild than a new one. New starter turns over great.

HPOP reservoir is at correct level prior to starting.

I have forscan so I can do some diagnostic testing, and I do all my own work on the truck. With what's been done the truck will now start down to 13F, but always 2nd or 3rd crank and billows a LOT of smoke. When the truck is plugged in, or when weather is warmer, it doesn't smoke at all on startup or during normal operation. My only ideas moving forward are to do a cylinder contribution test (was done when purchased, but not with new injectors), a leak down test, or replace the CPS with my spare. Any suggestions for things to check are greatly appreciated. I'll post a link to the most recent startup cold.




 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 09:39 AM
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Note: I had key on for 90-100 sec before first crank, but not shown in video.

 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 10:03 AM
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[QUOTE=LivinNSin;20252136]Note: I had key on for 90-100 sec before first crank, but not shown in video./QUOTE]

Leaving the key on doesn't mean the glow plugs stay on. On my e99 (with cold weather PCM - for whatever that is worth), the GP stays on for only 30 or so seconds after dings, dongs, and lights stop. If you listen carefully, you will here the relay disengage. So if you want to get some good GP mojo, you will have to cycle the key a couple of times.

I live in northern Maine, so cold starting is a thing. Plumes of exhaust are common once it gets below 15F. Anything below that I tended to plug the block heater in for at least an hour to help it out.

In Spring 2021, I put in a Prestolite Alternator which has a much higher amp output at low idle, which really helps out the battery. Part of that project was a cabling upgrade/upsize. Then I added an onboard trickle charger. I definitely noticed an improvement in my cold start game this winter. Part of what could be causing your issues is the batteries aren't delivering all they can - there is some decent drain going on even when temps are at 25 or so. Prior to upgrades, my truck would start up when it was cold, but it would take a few extra seconds on the starter. Now (with same batts I have had for 3 yrs now), the starting is noticeably quicker. I haven't felt the need to plug in for starting as low as -5F yet.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 10:04 AM
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I see where you checked for blowby, but have you checked for erratic exhaust pulses at the tail pipe which is a simpler way to check cylinder contribution. I also don't see where you have checked and/or cleaned the fuel bowl and heater within. Those temperatures are telling me you live somewhere up north but nothing in your description and/or user details.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 10:15 AM
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Looks like you’ve done a great job trying to nail this down so far. I’m not much help beyond what you’ve already tried but I can add that switching to 5w-40 helped my cold starts a lot.

Also adding a digital volt meter to the cigarette lighter port in the dash helps me know what the glowplugs are doing.



 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bwguardian
I see where you checked for blowby, but have you checked for erratic exhaust pulses at the tail pipe which is a simpler way to check cylinder contribution. I also don't see where you have checked and/or cleaned the fuel bowl and heater within. Those temperatures are telling me you live somewhere up north but nothing in your description and/or user details.
Thanks for your response. I have not checked for erratic pulses at the tail pipe. Let me know what I'm looking for, I'll also post a video of tailpipe while starting. The fuel bowl has been cleaned previously, but I've never checked to see if the fuel bowl heater works. I live near STL, so winter temps are usually 40F down to 5F, but most cold mornings are 25F - 35F.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 10:26 AM
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[QUOTE=pvdiag;20252176]
Originally Posted by LivinNSin
Note: I had key on for 90-100 sec before first crank, but not shown in video./QUOTE]

Leaving the key on doesn't mean the glow plugs stay on. On my e99 (with cold weather PCM - for whatever that is worth), the GP stays on for only 30 or so seconds after dings, dongs, and lights stop. If you listen carefully, you will here the relay disengage. So if you want to get some good GP mojo, you will have to cycle the key a couple of times.

I live in northern Maine, so cold starting is a thing. Plumes of exhaust are common once it gets below 15F. Anything below that I tended to plug the block heater in for at least an hour to help it out.

In Spring 2021, I put in a Prestolite Alternator which has a much higher amp output at low idle, which really helps out the battery. Part of that project was a cabling upgrade/upsize. Then I added an onboard trickle charger. I definitely noticed an improvement in my cold start game this winter. Part of what could be causing your issues is the batteries aren't delivering all they can - there is some decent drain going on even when temps are at 25 or so. Prior to upgrades, my truck would start up when it was cold, but it would take a few extra seconds on the starter. Now (with same batts I have had for 3 yrs now), the starting is noticeably quicker. I haven't felt the need to plug in for starting as low as -5F yet.
Thanks for responding. I've checked GP operation to confirm voltage across the relay, and it stays on over 1.5 minutes, can't recall exactly but think around 2min. My issues don't just occur at super low temps. An on board trickle charger isn't a bad idea....I can try using my trickle and see if it improves anything. Still have the pain of plugging something in however and that would only help at the house. In the next year or two this truck would be used to elk hunt in Colorado. I wouldn't be able to plug it in out there and don't really want to get a different truck.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rot Box 2
Looks like you’ve done a great job trying to nail this down so far. I’m not much help beyond what you’ve already tried but I can add that switching to 5w-40 helped my cold starts a lot.

Also adding a digital volt meter to the cigarette lighter port in the dash helps me know what the glowplugs are doing.

I have an oil change coming up so I'm likely going to go to 5W-40. Good idea on the cigarette lighter port...I've also seen guys have a little red light on the dash.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LivinNSin
Thanks for your response. I have not checked for erratic pulses at the tail pipe. Let me know what I'm looking for, I'll also post a video of tailpipe while starting. The fuel bowl has been cleaned previously, but I've never checked to see if the fuel bowl heater works. I live near STL, so winter temps are usually 40F down to 5F, but most cold mornings are 25F - 35F.
If you put a piece of paper or shop rag at the end of the tail pipe with the engine running it should be a steady fluctuation...if you get an occasional different puff, that's a problem. I went back and listened to your video and the engine is not rolling over quick enough to fire it off quick. That's either a too thick of an oil issue or your starting system. I responded to a slow start thread you may check out relative to starters and how the engine should sound when cranking. This is an audio I took of my truck trying to help one of my daughters boyfriends diagnose a no start when cold. I upgraded both our 7.3L trucks with a 6.7L starter and what a huge difference it made. My truck had starting issues when it got down into the 40's and now starts right up when it gets down into the 20's.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bwguardian
If you put a piece of paper or shop rag at the end of the tail pipe with the engine running it should be a steady fluctuation...if you get an occasional different puff, that's a problem. I went back and listened to your video and the engine is not rolling over quick enough to fire it off quick. That's either a too thick of an oil issue or your starting system. I responded to a slow start thread you may check out relative to starters and how the engine should sound when cranking. This is an audio I took of my truck trying to help one of my daughters boyfriends diagnose a no start when cold. I upgraded both our 7.3L trucks with a 6.7L starter and what a huge difference it made. My truck had starting issues when it got down into the 40's and now starts right up when it gets down into the 20's.
What was the temp for the audio your provided? The temp during my startup was 13F. Just trying to compare the two. At higher temps, say 30, it sounds like the audio you provided, but still doesn't turn over on the first crank. I do plan on switching oil so I'll see if that helps.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LivinNSin
What was the temp for the audio your provided? The temp during my startup was 13F. Just trying to compare the two. At higher temps, say 30, it sounds like the audio you provided, but still doesn't turn over on the first crank. I do plan on switching oil so I'll see if that helps.
It was end of April and I was in shorts...so probably 60's-70's. However, when we got that arctic blast a year ago, it sounded the same when it was in the 20's for awhile. Have you also checked fuel pressure as almost sounds like a fuel issue too. Where did that starter come from as some of those units make it just past the warranty then give up the ghost...and in the meantime are weak that is not noticeable until loaded as conditions change. The 6.0L offset starter I pulled out of my truck to put in the 6.7L unit was that way and the one that wouldn't start the truck when it got into the 40's only being a couple months old...
 
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Old Jan 21, 2022 | 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bwguardian
It was end of April and I was in shorts...so probably 60's-70's. However, when we got that arctic blast a year ago, it sounded the same when it was in the 20's for awhile. Have you also checked fuel pressure as almost sounds like a fuel issue too. Where did that starter come from as some of those units make it just past the warranty then give up the ghost...and in the meantime are weak that is not noticeable until loaded as conditions change. The 6.0L offset starter I pulled out of my truck to put in the 6.7L unit was that way and the one that wouldn't start the truck when it got into the 40's only being a couple months old...
I have not checked fuel pressure. That's on my to do list. It's a Mitsubishi starter I got from a local starter shop. I don't know where he got it but he said it was new. He was supposed to rebuild my starter but said it would cost more than just replacing it. I don't know where he bought it, but did ask if it was a rebuild or new and he said new. Take that for what it's worth, but I will say this is definitely an upgrade from the worn out starter that was on it.

 
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Old Jan 24, 2022 | 09:49 AM
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This is a 40F cold start. I left the batteries on a trickle charger. Hard to tell due to the wind pushing the smoke out of the picture, but she billowed out a pretty good plume of smoke. Next up I'll check fuel pressure and going to replace the battery cables and cables to starter.


 
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Old Jan 24, 2022 | 10:12 AM
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I see a couple things here. In the last video you can see the erratic puff at the tail pipe...and in the first video you can hear the skip in rolling over. I would do a cylinder contribution test at this point. The starter is not rolling over fast enough to bust it off...and just because you have a fairly new starter doesn't mean it is up to snuff. It's easy to pull and test, which I would do before throwing parts at it like cables...speaking of which, have you cleaned the terminals on them as they tend to need it about once a year.
 
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Old Jan 24, 2022 | 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bwguardian
I see a couple things here. In the last video you can see the erratic puff at the tail pipe...and in the first video you can hear the skip in rolling over. I would do a cylinder contribution test at this point. The starter is not rolling over fast enough to bust it off...and just because you have a fairly new starter doesn't mean it is up to snuff. It's easy to pull and test, which I would do before throwing parts at it like cables...speaking of which, have you cleaned the terminals on them as they tend to need it about once a year.
I'm assuming a cylinder contribution test via forscan will suffice? Can you give details on how the test needs to be performed? I assume with engine at operating temp? I will double check terminals but pretty sure I cleaned them up when I put on the new batteries.
 
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