You might want to read this (attachment)

 

Mark's finding of the difference EBP between 35 and 8 is very significant. Either the sensor is bad, which is likely not if koeo of the sensor is similar to atmospheric pressure. So you may have a big leak. Unless you turbo Van's have no resistance at all. Did you observe the vans moved back and forth as you moved the piston?

Maybe you can command it on the bench also if you have a variable dc source if correct range (1-12v I think, unless this is not voltage control, but I doubt that. Based on the command volt and 85%, you can use that.

Did you check if the piston if the turbo pushed the cap with the c clip all the way out yet?

 

The sensor has been reading a little over 15 KOEO versus 14.5 for BARO and MAP. While driving, EBP went up to 20, while the others stayed the same. I didn't "observe" the vanes move, but I heard something moving inside - I assumed the unison ring and, ergo, the vanes. And yes, the piston cap pushed all the way back out when I just cranked the engine (key off). It didn't on the first 10-second crank, but after the second, I went back inside (access via the doghouse) and it had pushed all the way out. Not sure how much of that second crank was required to do that.

Reading the doc Mark provided, most of the possible causes should throw a code - unless, maybe, I'm not pushing the RPMs up enough. That there is no codes seems significant - like the problem is something mechanical and not seen by the sensors.

An exhaust leak might do that, and certainly the exhaust manifold connections could be leaking. But, I don't see/hear any evidence of that with the engine running/driving and the doghouse off right next to me. And I wasn't getting boost before I messed with anything. At the same time, it seems to be acting a little different now than it was - the first day, when black smoke was steadily coming out driving on the freeway, the VGT seemed to be stuck in that 50-55% range. Now, VGT is fluctuating and rising to 85% at idle. and I only have an occasional puff of black smoke while accelerating (which might be, IDK, just overfueling in this heavy, slow bus).

So, let me go drive it again and check Boost with TP to confirm I don't have any. I'm going to increase my speed and drive a little further to see if I ever get smoke (the first day, I didn't get smoke until late in the day after driving 100 miles, a lot at highway speeds, and it went away as soon as I got off the freeway).

 

Well, I sure appreciate everyone's time. I believe the truck is working fine now. While it seemed to drive normal this morning, I still suspected no boost. Now, I believe that was just due to the loss of power from my fan running fast.

First, understand that this bus is heavy (11,000lbs) and slow. I rarely, rarely get over 2500rpm or 65mph. Usually I'm around 2000 and 55. And, that's not just me being old and slow - it really doesn't want to be pushed more than that. Most of y'all in F250s drive much differently, and most information on these trucks assume that faster, higher-reving style. I just got on the freeway and pushed the truck to that highest range, and accelerated more than I ever do.

As before, MAP and BARO are 14.5. BARO stays there, but I saw MAP get as high as 20. EBP started at 15.7 and was usually 22-23, but almost touched 30 when I was getting the most BOOST. I saw BOOST as high as 7 and VGT as low as 47, and never saw it in that negative VACUUM mode on TP. Usually it was around 3. I know that doesn't sound like much boost to F250 owners, but I think it's prolly normal for 2500rpm. Usually, VGT was in the 57-65 range. When I idled, it would still sit at 85.

My fan was blowing and going - I hope just because it's hot - 92 right now - although I did lose between a quart and half gallon from the intake-to-degas hose I had to pull to get to the CAC boot. EOT/ECT got to 213/207 and quickly cooled down when I stopped. I think it was the combination of fan speed and the clogged EBP sensor that gave me the hard shifts that first day.

Unless y'all think that 85% at idle is a problem, my conclusion is that it was the clogged EBP sensor, not the tube, causing my turbo issue, which caused the black smoke and power loss. Once again, a Bonehead mistake not knowing to clean the sensor when I had these problems last spring and only cleaned the tube. Then, I made it worse by assuming it couldn't be the EBP again, and opting to swap in a turbo because I had a spare. That got me involved with the exhaust manifold bolts and lots of pain. All those original codes I posted seem to have been related to running the engine with low batteries. They've never come back.

I'm still puzzled as to why I didn't get codes, but maybe it's just the low rpms I drive at.

Amazingly, those c-clamps have stayed in place through all the test drives. That makes me want to take the risk that I can use some heavy wire crisscrossed around the flange/manifold ears to seal those connections and not have to semi-permanently weld them.

Of course, I could be all wrong, and end up broken down in the Mojave pulling my trailer. If not that though, it'll prolly be something else; it always is. But, maybe not, maybe I make this bus run another 6 months and finally quit the road warrior biz.

 

Good to hear the result. Maybe it still has either or both of turbo issue, and/or leak somewhere. Your boost numbers appear low in my opinion.

 

You may very well be right. Lord knows I'm confused by all this. I've never found any data on what boost should be on these 230HP Eseries, so I don't know if this is low, but prolly so. Factors I considered, but would love to hear other opinions:

VGT is fluctuating consistently and considerably. The first day I had smoke, it seemed stuck at 50-55 during the later test drive. Doesn't that suggest that the unison ring isn't frozen and that the vanes are moving? If so, something has changed.

Ditto BOOST - first day, after it started smoking and I later test drove again with TP connected, I didn't see more than 2.5ish, and that only while pushing the pedal, IIRC. Now, I'm seeing over 7 giving it similar pedal and consistently around 3. Again, something has changed.

It was smoking significantly, now it's not.

EBP has increased as well. Wasn't over 20-22ish; now I'm seeing close to 30 under acceleration.

While some of these numbers may be an illusion - maybe I accelerated more yesterday than I did the first day, or maybe I need to drive longer and let the truck get hotter (I don't know how hot is was the first day, I didn't test drive with gauges until after dark), the absence of smoke seems significant.

The EBP sensor was fairly clogged. It looked like a coax cable when I first checked it - solid black with a little hole in the middle. I literally thought it was supposed to be like that, and that I was just going to check/clean that little hole. Surprised to see how much gunk was in it. I would think cleaning that would make a difference, and that's when the differences I see now occurred.

All of the issues occurred before I cut the exhaust bolts, so it's unlikely that a major leak from those were causing the problem, but, maybe that changed as well - maybe I fixed the original problem and have now created a new one. Wouldn't be the first time I've done that; well, actually, I do that almost every time. One step back, then two steps forward..

The lack of codes being set has to mean something. Can't imagine no codes with most of the typical failures - like a frozen unison ring or major air leak.

I'm going to drive more today, and get my trailer hooked up. Want to see how it handles the load and longer drives. I worry about the 85% at idle. From Mark's PDF being at 85 makes the engine get warm faster. I worry about overheating more than anything else, and Phoenix is still 110. If I still head to CA, I'll be taking the spare turbo and my tools. I'll know before I leave civilization (across W/ Tx) whether I have a problem. I also drive across the desert during the early morning or, maybe, after dark, just to avoid the high temps.

 

The VGT duty cycle is a command only. It is NOT necessarily an indication that anything is actually moving.

 

Dang. that shoots my theory down. Does that boost going up to 7 indicate the turbo is working at all? How about the way the piston pushed back out when I cranked the engine?

Thanks.

 

Can anyone think of anything that could be wrong and, yet, not throw a code? It seems like that would be a short list, and one I should troubleshoot first.

 

I can't help any with that. This may be a bonehead idea, but I think I read somewhere that you can unplug the vgt solenoid while the engine is running and you should hear a change in tone. Kind of a shade tree way to at least find out if its doing anything? Not sure if your hearing is up to that though...

 

Don't feel too bad. I have to pull valve covers & an injector out of a Duramax for the 3rd time because I didn't research injector cup replacement well enough. Injectors in a LB7 go into a sleeve that goes through the water jacket of the head & can come out when the injector is pulled if you're unlucky. When I was doing the left bank, the rear most one came out. I figured, no problem, Ill just clean & reinstall. Had issues with another on the right side, so I did some research & found that you're supposed to put loctite on the bottom of the sleeves when reinstalling to seal combustion pressure off from the water passage in the head. Guess its a good deal the last one gave me problems, or I'd have put everything back together, then had it pressurizing my cooling system & have to take everything back apart again!

On your boost issues, your numbers don't look that bad to me. My dually will run very similar figures if I'm taking it easy on it, like you're probably doing. If I really hammer on it, I can get boost up to 28, but usually I never see 20 with just highway driving. It also idles at 85% VGT duty cycle. Does yours high idle with a noticeable whistle when its started cold? Mine is a crew cab, 4x4, King Ranch with bigger tires, so I'm probably not much lighter than you are.

 

The PC version of ForScan will operate the VGT -- set the slider to 99% to max the turbo -- then to 100% and the turbo should open all the way quickly -- you can tell by hearing the exhaust change and see the boost gauge drop

When you are in the 'Read Pid Data' window -- look at the bottom of the screen at the button with the X on it -- click that and opens a new window -- at the top is a drop down with 'Read and Control' -- pick control -- pick VGT -- click OK to close
Now you have a control to change the turbo VGT

Don't be F'n around with the other stuff for now

 

OK, thanks, Hydro. That button does nothing as I sit here, so I guess it has to be connected to the truck first, which is why I couldn't find it. I'll go try that.

 

OK, I was able to do that, and definitely heard the exhaust change. Could hear it changing a little all the way down the slide. That mean my vanes are adjusting, right? so the actuator and CHRA are all functioning?

 

Need to set up the boost gauge on Forscan still. I didn't see the MAP_A_BARO PID, but it might have been because I wasn't connected to the van. I'll go look for that again.

UPDATE: Yeah, there isn't a PID with that description listed. I did see MGP and added it.

You said that I'd hear exhaust change and the boost gauge drop, so I heard the exhaust but not sure what is boost on this app. Does it even have boost at idle? Or, not usually, but by commanding the VGT it will?

It's hard for me to use ForscanPC while driving, this bus doesn't have a passenger seat. I have to set it on the floor, which is kinda risky for my PC.