So I have a 97 Powerstroke with a few small performance upgrades and just bought a 13K lb 5th wheel. Truck tows fine on flat ground but slows WAAAAY down on grades and EGTs jump up really quick. To give some frame of reference, while pulling the 6% grade up Donner Summit (I-80 EB in California) I dropped down to 2nd gear and held around 35MPH the whole way up. I was able to keep the EGTs around 1200 or lower and the coolant temp crept up despite it being evening and cool outside. I had the same issue on a previous trip going up a similar grade with no AC and at one point dropped to 19MPH (after I got cut off and couldn't regain momentum). On that grade the truck heated up significantly and when I pulled over to let it cool down, the oil was so thin the truck was really running rough. I know these motors don't have high HP and torque numbers and in all reality the truck does the job and is very reliable. However it would be nice to have more pulling power up the hills and not have to constantly feather the throttle to keep my EGTs down. I also want to keep the truck cool on those longer grades.

Here's my performance upgrades so far:

• Edge Evolution Tuner (currently set on the tow tune)
• 3" downpipe with 4" straight pipe
• EBV delete
• Cold air intake
• Full transmission rebuild (shop said I am good up to 500RWHP)

I keep up on all the regular maintenance and haven't had any major issues. The truck doesn't leak a drop of fluid and does not burn oil (knock on wood). Some of the upgrades I have considered:

• Wicked wheel or upgraded turbo
• Upgraded injectors/fuel system
• Intercooler
• Aluminum radiator
• Performance HPOP pump

I received a quote from a shop in Oregon who doesn't do installs but sells performance packages. It was around $6K for the parts and then I would need a shop to do the install (could do it myself but I just don't have the time anymore). They recommend most of what I listed above minus the turbo upgrade and radiator. They also said I wouldn't have to worry about EGTs as they would drop drastically. My ultimate concern is that I don't want to jeopardize the reliability of the truck just to be able to tow better. I primarily tow the 5th wheel with the truck but also try to drive it at least twice a week just to keep everything running smooth and lubricated. I love my truck I just want to have more ump and not be "that guy" who can't keep up on the grades.

Any thoughts or real world experience is welcomed!

Thanks,
JB

 

I don't think you are going to be impressed unless you pay a shop $10k. Is that investment worth towing better up this one pass?

 

Essentially it will cost me around $10K once I pay a shop to install these upgrades. I only use the one grade as an example as I want to be able to tow my rig anywhere without worrying about how steep the roads are or if I will need to pull over halfway up the grade. One place I am planning on going next year would take me over the Grapevine pass which can be a challenge. I know my truck is older and there is only so much I can do, I just want to make sure that this investment is worth my money before I drop it into the truck OR if there are other upgrades that give me more bang for the buck.

 

First, I would probably ditch the Edge tunes. The monitor is fine but the tunes are not ideal. A Hydra will get you started in the right direction, especially on a stock truck.

Most of the upgrades are pretty much bolt on but you will need to give some thought on the order of installation i.e. all at once or step by step. As Bitterroot said, how much you tow will drive how far you will want to go on upgrades.
For a fairly mild reliable build:
160/0 injectors (1200)
HPOP (600)
intercooler (300)
efuel (700)
KC 300 balanced kit (450)
Titan for Hydra (150)

That list is the beginning and there are several ways to do it and several people to buy from. Bitterroot, Riffraff, and Rosewood are great places to start. Some things you can source used, like an intercooler. Each option has differing variables depending on your end goal. Injector size and turbo size being two things that there are lots of discussions about

i would suggest reading this:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...e-reviews.html


it is a ton of info on the experiences people are having with different set ups. In the end, you will have to decide what meets your needs best. You may decide that a fairly stock truck will meet your needs. My truck is more stock than not and it meets my needs 99% of the time. And the 1% that it doesn’t, I just slow down and enjoy the ride. Then let the truck do the rest.

I would check your fan clutch before worrying about the radiator. Unless it is clogged, these things run pretty cool. The clutch may not be locking and giving full air flow.

 

ALL great info! I did read another post about the fan clutch and also heard about installing the 6.0 fan clutch which is supposed to work better? It runs really cool other than pulling grades so lack of airflow makes perfect sense. I basically want a truck that will tow my 5th wheel without struggle. I know if I hit some grades I am going to have to take it slow but want to keep up with the big boys on most of the grades. I used to drive truck and I know how frustrating it is to have to drop a gear and lose momentum because someone is dragging along in the slow lane on a grade. I have heard of sourcing an intercooler but that is easier said than done here in California....bone yards are scarce LOL. But I will keep my eyes on Ebay or other sites.

One more question if anyone else has experienced this. since I deleted the EGV and the sensor on the pedestal, I am getting a check engine light. Anyone know how to bypass the sensor and get rid of the light?

 

Most cost effective solution would be a 6.7 Powerstroke. Otherwise, we need to build your truck for pulling sleds.

 

If you could do the work you could do fine for probably around $7000. But having a shop do it will bring that up a good bit

imo I’d get some 160/30 injectors a kc balanced assembly intercooler and efuel. Lots of people run stock hpops with this setup fine (although a bigger one would definitely help) but it would save a little bit

 

My vote is physics first and fuel / tuning second. Cooler air in will directly translate into cooler exhaust out, so consider an intercooler as one of the top priorities. Also, make sure there are no intake leaks. Better flowing exhaust next and possibly a different turbo. While there, make sure that the uppipes are not leaking. After that, injectors and tunes.

About the tranny, am presuming we are talking about the 4 speed automatic. If it is OE or rebuild history unknown, then it should get some hardening. I do know that there are only a couple shops with good reputations for bulletproofing this tranny, but seeing as I have a hand-shaker, I do not keep current with the chatter of who is the current best rebuilder.

While scoping the intercooler install, get a good look at the radiator core support as there is a fair chance that it has cancer by this age. Hint: consider borrowing a bore scope as some locations are not easily visible. LMC has a replacement and a good video on how to do the job.

IIRC, the 6.0 fan clutch is electro-viscous. The 7.3 uses thermal-viscous. Same job, but completely different animals that do not interchange. Also, am not certain that the mounting bolts are the same sizes. But if the goal is to use an electro-viscous clutch, it will need other components to include wiring and a controller.

FWIW, and unless I am missing something, the coolant temperature gauge does not mean much. Sure it is connected to a sending unit and indicates warmer or cooler relative to something, but God alone knows what temperature the gauge's indication actually translates into. If there is interest in seeing any real temps, the PCM reads oil temp and this is visible by connecting to the OBD-II port.

And in terms of keeping up with the 'big boys' on grade, I have done it with a gasser v8 around 390 ft / lb, a gasser v6 rated 420 ft / lb, and a diesel v8 that dyno'd around 390 ft / lb before the slushbox was replaced for a manual. All of those 'inferior' platforms actually did a good job and pulled just over 8K# up 6% grades at speed. Trick in all cases was either a 6 speed automatic or 5 speed manual. 4 speed automatics just are not good at climbing the grade in comparison.

Last comment is that the Edge is useful, but only as a monitor. So consider getting something like the CTS2 or CTS3. Or get a bluetooth OBD-II plug-in and the FORScan app to read PCM data.

 

Do you have a low stall converter? You could be blowing through a standard stall unit with even mild tunes when it is not locked up. This will make a huge difference in tow ability and is easily overlooked.

What sort of boost are you seeing at full RPM and such? No one mentioned if your uppipes are leaking which is very common. Those leaking basically turn you into a non turbo 7.3DI. My last test was 16psi at 3000rpm in fifth gear. Stock size tires on a stock tune.

My stock HPOP could not keep up with my stock 90cc sticks. Pressure dropped and duty cycle skyrocketed. Truck runs even better now that I have full atomization again. More pressure and duty cycle dropped quite a bit. Your Edge should output this data, my Insight does just fine witha firmware update from Edge. Very easy DIY install.

OBS Solutions I think makes IC brackets for these trucks to use a 7.3 SD IC. Pipe wise unsure but there are a few options. This is an easy job.

 

Thanks for the info. Yes it is an E4OD and it's been rebuilt with much better components. The shop I used said I would be good with any upgrades as long as I didn't go over about 500RWHP. Thought about a manual I just prefer the convenience of an automatic. Up-pipes are replaced and no turbo or exhaust leaks. It has a 3" downpipe and 4" straight out the back...it breathes well. I had the cooling system completely flushed about 8K miles ago and all looked good. I'm the 3rd owner and the first two kept meticulous service records. The truck really is mechanically sound especially considering it has just over 300K on the odometer.

Good to know about the fan clutch. Probably will just replace the current one with an upgraded one.

My temp gauge was getting hotter than I like and the EOT was hovering right around 230 degrees which I'm told is high. It was obvious because the truck ran really rough when I pulled over. Once it cooled down it ran like normal.

I can definitely tell the power is there but the EGTs shoot up right away. I am worried about turbo lag with an intercooler but I guess that is the trade off?

 

I do have an upgraded stall but would have to call the shop that rebuilt the trans as I don't remember the specs. I told him exactly what I am doing with the truck and he said the stall he put in was perfect for it. Highest boost I've seen is 15psi and I am told these trucks can run up to 35psi with no issues...that's why I was thinking I should upgrade the turbo. Plus an intercooler will drop those numbers as well. A friend of mine who was a Ford service tech for 20 years told me to replace the HPOP as soon as I could. He said they tended to fail around 300K and like you said, they don't allow the injectors to operate at full capacity. Plus I figured as long as it was in the shop, I might as well have it done...peace of mind.

Also for everyone on the thread: I would love to do this all myself but it would take me a month trying to squeeze in all the work in between my 9-5, shuttling my kids all over, being a good boyfriend and everything else life throws as me. The shop I trust said they could do it all in 3 days. Plus we rarely go 3 weeks without taking the 5th wheel out so I can't really do that much down time.

 

Your journey and goals sound very similar to mine. I drank the T4 turbo koolaid and really emptied the wallet, but am very pleased with the results. My truck hauls up grades now, even with the 13k gvwr toy hauler. I have a build thread if you are interested in the details.

If you are budget minded due to labor costs, I like the recipe 97-psd outlined above. I think you would be very happy with an intercooler, some 160/30 and the newest KC turbos.

 

Thanks for the encouragement! Would love to see your build sheet. The injectors recommended to me are 200/30 so maybe a bit much?

 

That is a great size injector but you might pay several hundred more dollars because they are hybrid. The advantage is they require less high pressure oil to operate so may play nicer with an aging HPOP.

When my brand new 205/30 were built and bench tested, the results hinted that they could only flow about 175cc of fuel within a useable pulse width.

So for a budget minded build, I would just go with some 160/0 or 160/30 non-hybrid injectors and put the money saved towards a fresh HPOP.

 

Does the E4OD lockup in second gear with stock programming? I know it is hard on the input shaft, but a 300M shaft is super cheap for them.

If not, I wonder if your EOT snd trans temps were very high due to converter slippage. The stock cooler is quite pathetic on these and all that heat from the trans is being dumped into the coolant along with the oil cooler.

Most guys seem to run a 6.0 PSD cooler and I think some do 1/2" lines also from a 4R100. Hopefully they can chime in for more data on that for you. That probably will not help EGTs but if fluid temps drop that would be nice.

I have only done valve body upgrades on a 4R100 so I am not too much help with what all is needed on this platform. But I do know a low stall makes a world of difference from my 6.4 days.