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Mark, I just towed the 5th wheel home today and I gave'r the beans leaving a clover leaf on ramp to I-85 and here are two snips of my FORScan log. Keep in mind there are only 32ms (milliseconds) between the first and last row of data.
I wanted to post them simply for additional information and reference sake. I will have the full video and pertinent data points available in the next few days.
Top of 3rd gear where I saw ~32 PSI of boost (MGP), I didn't notice the EGT here because I was looking for smoke and at the boost gauge.
Top of 4th gear where I saw ~34 PSI of boost (MGP) and about 975° of EGT.
Thanks Sous, this is helpful. The difference in the tuning is both interesting to me, and a bit of a mystery. Your IPR was maxed out, but your pulse widths were still really skinny, by my truck's standards. Your EGT's were lower than I'd see, but I'm guessing you were 5000ft, or more, below where I've ever towed, and that makes some difference.
Thanks Sous, this is helpful. The difference in the tuning is both interesting to me, and a bit of a mystery. Your IPR was maxed out, but your pulse widths were still really skinny, by my truck's standards. Your EGT's were lower than I'd see, but I'm guessing you were 5000ft, or more, below where I've ever towed, and that makes some difference.
I clearly need to go to tunin' skool...
Mark
Yes, this is in no way an apples to apples comparison, only additional data provided in order to broaden the scope of investigation. I was about 1250 ft ASL today when this log was taken. I can be at 5500 ft or so in an hour in the mountains, but this was a shakedown trip for the 363 SXE prior to asking it to perform on a 5,000 - 7,500 mile trip cross country through your neck of the woods.
It is NOT uncommon for me to see upwards of 5.0ms FUELPW when cruise control is set, towing heavy and in 5th gear at 65 MPH. Although, Cleatus12r tells us this is no big deal and roughly what he would expect since my RPM is only at 2000. He said that the FUELPW has a limit of 15ms (I believe that is what he said) and the RPM can dictate what the FUELPW is reading.
Looking at my ICP, it is pretty darn near 3000 PSI. Granted these max effort pulls with the 5th wheel were only for a few seconds because it doesn't take long before I need to push the clutch in and up shift. I don't like to run my RPM past 3000 much, it has happened, but not many times because I just don't see the need. Most of the power band is 1800 - 2800 and I keep it there.
My IPR DC is typically maxed out, when on cruise control or when performing a max effort pull. Although, I have come to realize through the learning I did in the EGT vs FUELPW vs ICP vs IPR DC... thread that above 65%, the number is a dummy number. The HPOP is at maximum output at 65%. Although, that doesn't change the fact that my HPOP is at maximum effort during the 32ms noted above.
EGT's, you cannot compare as I am running a T4/363 turbo at 1250 ft ASL. You are not... I will let you know in about a month what my EGT's are going over the Rocky Mountains though, how about that? Your absolutely right the elevation makes a difference, and perhaps I should have just left the observed degree off my post. I simply copied and pasted my data log snips from another thread regarding the SXE swap. It was not my intention to compare EGT's at all, I just wanted to relay some data points that I saw today regarding HPOP, FUELPW, MFDES, etc...
Good stuff, Sous. I noted the EGT's because I run tunes that are prone to them. I'd *love* to see data from your pull up Mt. Vernon Canyon (westbound I70 out of Denver), and up the eastbound sides of Vail Pass and up to the tunnel. Our trailer's are different - mine's 2000lb flatbed with a 5000lb 4runner on it - but the compare would be interesting.
I know from reading your posts that I need to stop working in my trucks and start enjoying them!
I could pull those I-70 grades with a 12.5k 5th wheel and never worry about EGT - after I got rid of the dp tooner. With good tunes (BTS/Tyrant, Gearhead and even the PHP library for the most part), EGT and smoke has not been an issue for me.
High IPR DC is a telltale sign of tired injectors or HPOP. They are using more oil to get the job done.
High IPR DC is a telltale sign of tired injectors or HPOP. They are using more oil to get the job done.
Soooooo, remanufactured 160/0's with a Bosch HPOP from Santa this year...
Mark, we will be on and around that area at least twice over the next two months. We have been through there before and enjoyed the ride and scenery. I will try to keep you updated.
Gentlemen, I have an update and question, and will post data when I'm back in front of a computer this weekend. 'Till then...
I noticed when towing my same 7k load over the Rockies:
1) The truck's performance has improved, and I have to watch the EGT gauge again in long tall climbs. I'm assuming that replacing the ICP sensor and cleaning the EBP sensor and tube helped.
2) The trailer still seems heavier than it used to. IOW, I want more out of this thing...
3) I noticed on long pulls at 1/2 - 3/4 pedal, ICP would hold steady at 2500psi, and IPRDC was well below 65%. Press the pedal down and IPRDC went immediately to near 100%, and ICP dropped to 2000psi, or a little below.
Thanks guys. Sous, I "continued on at the desired pace", unless the incline steepened. Smoke wasn't bad, but there was a bit of haze.
This tells me to stick stick with my current plan: Let Terminator have a look at, and likely rebuild, my T500, rebuild my IPR while it's down, and reevaluate the need for injectors after that.
Thanks guys. Sous, I "continued on at the desired pace", unless the incline steepened. Smoke wasn't bad, but there was a bit of haze.
This tells me to stick stick with my current plan: Let Terminator have a look at, and likely rebuild, my T500, rebuild my IPR while it's down, and reevaluate the need for injectors after that.
I finally got my Excursion back on the road, have logged another test run, with mixed results. I'm interested in your thoughts, as always, and really appreciate all your help!
As a reminder, what I'd done before today, and just before the last run in early may, I had:
1) Replaced the ICP sensor
2) Cleaned the EBP sensor and tube
Over the last few weeks, I've:
1) Had my T500 HPOP rebuilt by Terminator. These guys rock!! They turned around the rebuild in no time, and for a price that I thought way beyond reasonable, and into above-and-beyond-the-call territory. They were simply terrific!
2) Installed a new IPR from Clay
3) Replaced all CAC boots with new ones from Clay. One of the old ones developed a tear after my previous test runs
3) Installed a KC S300 turbine wheel from Clay, and rebuilt the turbo with a 360 kit at the same time
4) Rebuilt the fuel bowl
I'll post a before and after chart below, but the gist seems to be that the low ICP problem is solved. I didn't log it, but the rebuilt T500 will hold 3200psi in stock tune, and you can see its performance is much improved. The truck feels more responsive now, in some ways, but the data shows its rolling 10-65mph time is unchanged. The bad news is that it seems my turbo performance, whether from the turbine change, boost leak, exhaust leak (neither of which I can find, but I need to try again), or something else, has gotten worse, compared to my early may test runs. It huddles around 2psi going down the road, and seems to smoke worse than before, which is disappointing. If I can solve this, I think I'll have a "100% truck", for the first time in awhile.
To the data. The first chart is just a repost of my May 4th 60h tune run. The second is the same tune, on the same ramp, and in very similar weather conditions.
60H tune 050421 60H Tune 071621
As you can see, the rebuilt T500 is a good bit stronger than the old one. Unless you see something I don't, I'm calling that problem solved. The turbo performance is lackluster, with essentially the same peak as before (23psi, MGP), when I probably had a small tear in the boot developing already (it was pretty chewed up on the back side.) Any thoughts as to why that might be?
I think you're right - this data is showing good ICP building and holding through the gears.
Sorry to hear about the apparent boost/exhaust leaks. You'll find 'em. Remind me what compressor wheel you are using. While the peak boost may be low due to leaks, I do see the turbo lighting off at a lower RPM, a trait of the new turbine. That's a good sign.
Edit: I see you are running a ported housing and Clay's wheel for it - that's yet another combination that will be interesting to see the performance of, with the KC 300x turbine.
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