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1957 - 1960 F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Box Style Ford Trucks

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Old Jan 19, 2021 | 05:01 PM
  #16  
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Non-Ethanol gasoline is rare but does seem to exist in CA.
Check here (https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA) for a list of stations that may, or may not, be near you.

Since you report a yellow spark, I would definitely go through the primary ignition system. Start with the battery, make sure it has a full charge. Check at the "+" coil terminal for battery voltage when cranking and something around 12 volts with the key on. Also check continuity of the wire from the "-" coil terminal to the points. Check/replace points, condenser, distributor cap, and rotor. If the spark plug cables are old, you might replace them too. They can be checked with an ohm meter but it won't reveal leakage, only the condition of the center conductor. If the spark plugs are as bad as you're describing, none of this will help without new spark plugs too. If I did not know the maintenance history of this truck I would replace everything I just mentioned without a second thought. As already mentioned ignition coils fail, but rarely. Pertronix conversions are good but save that until you get the truck running correctly otherwise you'll just "muddy the waters."

You might also check to see if you have the correct spark plugs. There have been lots of replacements and supersessions through the years and some of the manufacturers may not have gotten it right. From such short trips you describe, you might barely be getting the choke open. In that case, one heat range warmer than stock wouldn't hurt.

Lou Manglass
 
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Old Jan 19, 2021 | 06:26 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by manglass
Non-Ethanol gasoline is rare but does seem to exist in CA.
Check here (https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA) for a list of stations that may, or may not, be near you.

Since you report a yellow spark, I would definitely go through the primary ignition system. Start with the battery, make sure it has a full charge. Check at the "+" coil terminal for battery voltage when cranking and something around 12 volts with the key on. Also check continuity of the wire from the "-" coil terminal to the points. Check/replace points, condenser, distributor cap, and rotor. If the spark plug cables are old, you might replace them too. They can be checked with an ohm meter but it won't reveal leakage, only the condition of the center conductor. If the spark plugs are as bad as you're describing, none of this will help without new spark plugs too. If I did not know the maintenance history of this truck I would replace everything I just mentioned without a second thought. As already mentioned ignition coils fail, but rarely. Pertronix conversions are good but save that until you get the truck running correctly otherwise you'll just "muddy the waters."

You might also check to see if you have the correct spark plugs. There have been lots of replacements and supersessions through the years and some of the manufacturers may not have gotten it right. From such short trips you describe, you might barely be getting the choke open. In that case, one heat range warmer than stock wouldn't hurt.

Lou Manglass
Thanks, Lou. I definitely will get it to run before going to Pertronix. I installed a different condenser today and cleaned and adjusted the points. It fired right up and sounded good with choke closed. As it warmed up and I opened choke it started popping when revved. I need new spark plugs but waiting to see what else. If it isn't as cold and windy tomorrow, I'm going to pull the carburetor and check the float level. I had it go crazy on me twice since I overhauled engine and bought a rebuild kit for "modern fuel blends". And yes, the last several months when I use this truck it is to move it where I'm pruning a tree. Start it after loading branches and drive a few hundred feet to my burn pile. Unusual to have it off the choke.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 02:43 PM
  #18  
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So, I removed the carburetor but didn't find much. The float was still horizontal when closed like when I rebuilt it. Blowing through inlet it actually shut off just above horizontal so I lowered it a little. Ran the same. OK with choke closed then died when I opened it and would not restart. Found a shop in town that stocks plugs but only lists by year to 1962. Anyone know if 1962 223 uses same points and condenser? They had resistor and non resistor plugs. I have no radio would non resistor be better? Same question on the wires?
 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 03:43 PM
  #19  
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No amount of tuning will fix bad fuel and/or fuel metering. You say it runs fine choke closed or is it barely without popping? Is the popping noise in the exhaust or in the intake?
 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 04:11 PM
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It idles ok but stumbles a little but revved up. It didn't run long today but yesterday when it popped the noise came from engine but it blew black smoke out exhaust when popping.
Sounds like you are suggesting I dump the fuel.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 04:35 PM
  #21  
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The Shop Manual, and Tune-Up section there or in general repair manuals have very, very good troubleshooting sections. It is important to start from the beginning, don't skip anything, and follow them in sequence. The very first is always a cylinder compression test, followed by a vacuum test, you can probably rent or borrow a compression tester but you want to own a mechanic's vacuum gauge. Next is Ignition timing checks. I would recommend verifying TDC with a tool called a piston stop, and make sure the crankshaft balancer weight hasn't slipped, this will cause the "0" mark to be out of index with the engine. Want to verify initial ignition timing, wide open throttle mechanical advance, and correct vacuum advance operation. Start with the basics first. If you do your homework and have a basically sound engine you can get a very sharp tune with just a few simple, inexpensive tools.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 04:46 PM
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Engine has maybe 50 miles since overhaul.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnNewb
It idles ok but stumbles a little but revved up. It didn't run long today but yesterday when it popped the noise came from engine but it blew black smoke out exhaust when popping.
Sounds like you are suggesting I dump the fuel.
Tedster is right, I was thinking it ran good after rebuild and then crappy recently (post bad fuel add). It doesn’t take very long to check things by the numbers and it rules all other things out along the way. BTW exhaust popping typically is unburned fuel lighting post compression stroke.

Keep at it and you will solve it!
 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 06:24 PM
  #24  
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I know I need plugs. Would like to buy and install correct condenser if I can find it. Guess I'll lose the fuel too. Wish I had not just added five gallons of new gas. I can't have more than 8 or 9 gallons in tank. $30 of gas cheaper than a lot of parts to throw at it.






 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 07:55 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by JohnNewb
I know I need plugs. Would like to buy and install correct condenser if I can find it. Guess I'll lose the fuel too. Wish I had not just added five gallons of new gas. I can't have more than 8 or 9 gallons in tank. $30 of gas cheaper than a lot of parts to throw at it.
You can save the gas and segregate just it in case. If I was to hazzard a “hail mary” guess, I would say you have a fouled plug or two. This lets it “drag” a cylinder and pump raw gas in the exhaust causing exhaust popping, low power, and the rest. Easy to check each plug to see if its sparking one at a time.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 08:54 PM
  #26  
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All the plugs were sooted up. I will replace them. I'm thinking I could have had weak spark but new engine ran good. Until I put the old gas in. Plugs were new after overhaul. Points and now condenser from friends extra parts stock. Cap and rotor were new six years ago when I bought truck. Wires are mismatched from same friend. I'm going to remove the gas, replace plugs, points and condenser and see what happens.
 
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 09:09 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by JohnNewb
All the plugs were sooted up. I will replace them. I'm thinking I could have had weak spark but new engine ran good. Until I put the old gas in. Plugs were new after overhaul. Points and now condenser from friends extra parts stock. Cap and rotor were new six years ago when I bought truck. Wires are mismatched from same friend. I'm going to remove the gas, replace plugs, points and condenser and see what happens.
This is why my grandpa would take his scout up the road and back once in a while to “blow the carbon out”. I just thought he liked scaring me...
 
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Old Jan 21, 2021 | 06:17 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by JohnNewb
So, I removed the carburetor but didn't find much. The float was still horizontal when closed like when I rebuilt it. Blowing through inlet it actually shut off just above horizontal so I lowered it a little. Ran the same. OK with choke closed then died when I opened it and would not restart. Found a shop in town that stocks plugs but only lists by year to 1962. Anyone know if 1962 223 uses same points and condenser? They had resistor and non resistor plugs. I have no radio would non resistor be better? Same question on the wires?
A 1962 223 will take the same points, condenser, and spark plugs as your truck (distributor cap, rotor, and plug wires too). From your description of use, I'd use non-resistor plugs if I had the option but it's not critical. Of the hundreds of carburetors I've rebuilt, that one barrel Holley is the only one I have found that the float level is super critical. Absolutely set it using the exact measurements listed in the service literature.

Lou Manglass
 
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Old Jan 21, 2021 | 07:52 AM
  #29  
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If the engine is only 50 miles in after overhaul, it may be the piston rings haven't fully seated. It shouldn't take long, but sometimes for whatever reason it can be stubborn. Conventional or old school iron rings and cylinder cross hatch need to be under engine load, under compression, to fully seat into their new working environment.

Make sure you've a good hot spark and the ignition timing is straight, engine is reaching normal operating temperature, and take it for a short highway trip and get it up to speed. "Vary your speed" is the advice given, this means some acceleration and deceleration cycles. A clear stretch of road without a lot of traffic would be best. There's no need to "baby" a rebuilt or overhauled engine.
 
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Old Jan 21, 2021 | 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by manglass
A 1962 223 will take the same points, condenser, and spark plugs as your truck (distributor cap, rotor, and plug wires too). From your description of use, I'd use non-resistor plugs if I had the option but it's not critical. Of the hundreds of carburetors I've rebuilt, that one barrel Holley is the only one I have found that the float level is super critical. Absolutely set it using the exact measurements listed in the service literature.

Lou Manglass
I am running a Carter but it worked OK for several years.
 
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