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Hey, I'm normally over on the 61-66 F-100 forum but they usually recommend coming here for the heavy truck questions. I'm looking to purchase an old county water truck and was hoping someone would decode the vin for me and let me know what other interesting information you can glean from the VIN tag info below. I want to take the water tank off for rain water collection, then I'll find some use for the truck, such as a flatbed or dump. The listing shows it as non-operable, so would likely be a complete reconstruction or find a nice diesel to swap in so if I get this, it would be a long term project. Mainly interested in the engine/tranny and rear end to see what a possible future I might have for the truck.
Update: Ok, I realized after I posted, that this is a T-850, not an F-850 (T=Tandem axle truck). Can't see how to change the title in edit. (Mod fixed it for you, no charge)
Through searching the interwebs and the site, I see that this should have the 534-4V engine. The listing says that the vehicle has not been used since 1996, so after 25 years of sitting, good chance its froze up, even here in the desert. Any more modern engines that would match this bell housing?
Still not sure about the tranny or axle. Looking at the pics, there is a second shift lever. I'm working on getting an inspection scheduled and I have not yet seen the truck yet, so I assume at this point that is for the PTO takeoff for a pump.
Last edited by 85e150; Nov 25, 2020 at 04:41 PM.
Reason: Add title edit comment
No color code, paint was part of the special order.
T850 = T850 gas, 39,000lbs GVWR
481 = My source is unclear, but it appears to be standard cab. I don't have the upholstry codes either, but that might not be a concern.
3N = 3 is Dana (Spicer) Model 7231-B three speed auxiliary transmission
N is Clark model 2621-V1, OR 2622-V1, OR Dana (Spicer) model 6352. All are 5 speed direct transmissions.
B6 = I don't have axle codes. Note your tag says B6. I will search old posts and get back if I find it. No front axle code on the plate
39000 = 39,000lb GVWR
235 3000 = 235 net HP @ 3000 RPM
750013 = Phoenix District code and special order code.
So a lot of this you already figured out but I try to stick to the Numberdummy format for consistency.
I'll be back on the axle code if I find it. (EDIT no luck)
As to this particular truck, it would be difficult to justify the expense to return it to it's former glory. Parts for the SD engines are hard to find. Empty with a tailwind you are looking at 5 mpg. 39000 GVWR is CDL territory as well.
Those engines used the SAE round bell patterns, not sure if it's #2 or another one. A diesel conversion could be done but the gearing will not be diesel friendly.
As you will note, this truck has two transmissions, so that's the second shifter.
A PTO powered pump might be controlled by a push/pull **** and cable control under the dash. There's something under the dash, I can't tell. There are also air shifters for the PTO, which would make sense if this truck has air brakes. I can't see the brake pedal or a compressor on the engine but I can't imagine this truck doesn't have air brakes. That would be another question--the type of brakes, wedge or S-cam.
More later.
Last edited by 85e150; Nov 25, 2020 at 05:54 PM.
Reason: no luck on axle info
Excellent data and information, thanks. I'm going up early next week to check it out. I've driven two speed rears, but never two transmissions, so that might be interesting.
Worst case if I get this truck is part out the engine/transmission(s) for those needing parts, use the tank for my rain water collection, and there are actually some cab parts I can use for my F-100.
Not a fan of getting my CDL for the air brakes, so that might be a deal breaker on getting it road worthy. In Arizona we can title at 25,999 GVW and drive without a CDL, but the air brakes are not exempt to my knowledge. Would have to be careful not to overload it, which considering how heavy they are to start with, may not make it that useful.
How big is that tank? Looks like maybe 3000 gallons?
There was another user with a potential CDL rig. His state allowed de-rating the truck and declaring a lower GVWR. Not sure of the mechanics there, but at least it's a way around the CDL for some.
As to air brakes, you do not need an CDL for them, but you probably need and endorsement on your DL or a different class DL. On the CDL, you must test with air brakes or you have a restriction. Ditto manual trans.
The trick is you need a rig to drive to test and inspect, but you can figure that out.
Hmm, I did a little research and supposedly yes you can drive air brakes with a non-cdl standard license without an endorsement, but do have to pass the additional test to drive them with a CDL. I know some of the guys in the commercial enforcement unit at the state DOT, so will verify this with them just to make sure. Supposedly it's a quirk of the way the federal regs were written. Will have to consider that more.
I think the tank may be bigger than 3K, hopefully there is a tag on it. Since its an old fuel tank, it should. I'll be using it for irrigation water. I have a 4K poly tank collecting rain/snow from 1/2 my shop roof I use for domestic use, this tank would be put on the other side to water a small garden. Hope the county didn't use it for salt brining the roads, if so, the tank is probably toast.
I just went through the ordeal of getting a 534 T-850 roadworthy, and it wasn't fun. Fortunately, the engine was a fresh reman, although it had been sitting for 10 years.
The previous owner had oiled the cylinders/cranked it over a couple of times, and it seems to run just fine now. It is extremely hard to find parts for these engines, so anything more than a tune-up gets very frustrating. If you can't get the engine running with some wires, plugs, and points, then just find about any other newer Ford gasser with an air compressor, and swap in everything from the fan to the front driveshaft. Yep, the clutch/bell/trans is unique to these motors as well... The air brakes have some unique Ford parts, and I will guess that every single component with rubber in them will need some attention, and there are dozens. If you are on private roads, it can all be rigged cheaply to sorta work, but public roads and legal and safe will cost more than you can imagine. The rear axle and trans drain plugs are probably magnetic, so a quick peek (remove plug, stick thumb over hole, check plug) will tell you if any spare parts are there already. Check the frame rail flanges for cracks behind the cab, and near the rear suspension mounts. What the heck - give it a go. That old thing may crank up and surprise you - heck, the tires even look like they are aired up!!
Keep us posted...
One thing about the 534. They were good engines. Just thirsty, and low revving. Mine gets up to speed relatively quickly but it tops out at about 64. I rarely run it above 50-55mph because that seems to be the sweet spot in the rpm range. If I could find a later spicer transmission that would work in a C series (shifter linkage is nuts on tilt cabs) , some of those had fairly decent overdrive gears in 5th.
If this truck isn't going to see a lot of miles, or be needed in a hurry it might be fine. I have a 63 c850 that I bought a couple of years ago. I put all new hoses on it, gave it a tune up and it's been running like a champ. Granted I rarely go more than 10 miles at a time with it but that is all I really need most days.
If you keep your eye out, you can occasionally find whole engines for reasonable prices. I've seen two within a couple hours of my home for $500 and both had working transmissions. I missed out on the first one but I picked up a 17k mile engine from a fire truck. It came complete with a good transmission and some other bits.
I'm not saying they are the most practical thing, or that getting info/parts isn't frustrating. I'm just saying that if you don't need to go far or fast it's worth giving the thing a chance.
Oh and edelbrock 1405/1406 carburetors work well on these engines if you have trouble with the stock one. You won't have a working governer if you do that, but I'm the only one who drives my truck so that isn't an issue. Given the rpm range they might be just a bit on the big side. if I were ordering one myself I'd go with a 500cfm. The Edelbrock was already on my truck when I bought it and there was one on my spare engine. I have an OEM carb that came off a parts truck I bought from a member on this forum but mine starts and runs so well I've just left it alone. .
No color code, paint was part of the special order.
T850 = T850 gas, 39,000lbs GVWR
481 = My source is unclear, but it appears to be standard cab. I don't have the upholstry codes either, but that might not be a concern.
3N = 3 is Dana (Spicer) Model 7231-B three speed auxiliary transmission
N is Clark model 2621-V1, OR 2622-V1, OR Dana (Spicer) model 6352. All are 5 speed direct transmissions.
B6 = I don't have axle codes. Note your tag says B6. I will search old posts and get back if I find it. No front axle code on the plate
39000 = 39,000lb GVWR
235 3000 = 235 net HP @ 3000 RPM
750013 = Phoenix District code and special order code.
So a lot of this you already figured out but I try to stick to the Numberdummy format for consistency.
I'll be back on the axle code if I find it. (EDIT no luck)
As to this particular truck, it would be difficult to justify the expense to return it to it's former glory. Parts for the SD engines are hard to find. Empty with a tailwind you are looking at 5 mpg. 39000 GVWR is CDL territory as well.
Those engines used the SAE round bell patterns, not sure if it's #2 or another one. A diesel conversion could be done but the gearing will not be diesel friendly.
As you will note, this truck has two transmissions, so that's the second shifter.
A PTO powered pump might be controlled by a push/pull **** and cable control under the dash. There's something under the dash, I can't tell. There are also air shifters for the PTO, which would make sense if this truck has air brakes. I can't see the brake pedal or a compressor on the engine but I can't imagine this truck doesn't have air brakes. That would be another question--the type of brakes, wedge or S-cam.
More later.
Looks like it has air brake pedal to me you will have to look hard for the compressor its down under the left exhaust manifold..
I'm going up tomorrow afternoon to check it out. I'll take some detailed pics and will ask any additional questions I may have. I've got some good information what to look for so that has given me a good head start. Thanks to everyone who has chimed in.
Finally got up to do the inspection. The rear drive shaft has separated at a u-joint, the cab is pretty beat up including a huge dent in the roof, and the water tank was damaged when a driver backed into something, pretty much destroying a flanged connection on the bottom so that it would take a major repair to hold water. So I'll be passing on this, even though the current bid price is only $52 right now. There's not enough good parts on the cab for my F100. One of the hood hinges was broken free of the hood so really didn't even get a comprehensive look at the motor, but it did look complete from what I could see. Even the glass was mostly broken out or damaged.
Again, thanks to everyone who gave me ideas on what to look for when I was up there.
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