I have a 78 460 that is bone stock. It needed a new timing set, I purchased a Cloyes double roller with the three keyways. Which would be better, the straight up or the 4* advance keyway? It's going to be left stock for the foreseeable future.

 

Since it has the adjustable keyways, were it me I would install it in the advanced position. Even a new timing chain will tend to stretch (a little bit) after a few hundred miles, and it will still end up on the advanced side of things.

In '78 or that era anyway they did a lot of jiggery-pokery with camshaft phasing. Retarded valve timing. Add to that, with any engine, there can be quite a bit of manufacturing tolerances +/-. Usually these production tolerances cancel each other out, sometimes though they "stack up" in one direction.

It would be best to use a degree wheel, and verify where the camshaft really ends up. 4 degrees advance on your Cloyes could still maybe only end up "straight up", which would probably still be an improvement on a smogger era engine, but. Without a degree wheel, or at least making a few field checks, where the camshaft actually ends up is just a guess at best.

 

Since itis bone stock without a cam card you can't really dial it in. But you can always do the old school shade tree method, dial-in for max compression. Install 4° advanced then do a compression test, use a couple of cylinders no need to do them all. Remove timing chain install strait up ( 0°) do another compression test, using the same cylinders if compression went down then you know you want it 4° advanced. If compression goes up, use the 0°
Installing it retarded is not going do anything positive for ya.

 

Most cams of the era were retarded , so even it out with 4 advanced

 

I don't have a degree wheel nor do I have any experience with one. Matthewq4b's idea seems the most workable one I'll try it out first. It'll probably be later in the week before I can get to that point.
BTW, Tedster kinda like you avatar. I've always enjoyed the Sons of the Pioneers. Even had that album like 50 years ago.

 

I was lead to believe the retard was in the crank gear.

 

It's a cool album cover, and they were good, I listen to it every once in a while scratches & pops & clicks and everything.

I did a quick dive into timing chains, because the set in my Y-Block was pretty loose. Compression was a little low. Cold starts were "OK" but despite tuning I could never seem to get a nice quick snappy start. Pretty soggy down low on acceleration. Engine manifold vacuum was also pretty low at factory ignition timing setting. This is a tell. I could crank the distributor ignition timing up to 16 or 17 to compensate, and the engine vacuum would come back up to spec. And with a low compression ratio'd engine, it would tolerate that, and more.

But that isn't how an engine is supposed to work. A factory stock engine (camshaft) should pull lots of vacuum at idle at factory ignition timing. Anyway eventually learned what the engine, and the gauges, were telling me. And I wasn't going to go through all that BS necessary to replace the timing set and possibly have it run worse when I was done.

You can "degree" a cam (for ballpark accuracy) with just a pie plate and a bent coat hanger, and at least make sure cam is truly installed "straight up" or, a hopefully a little on the advanced side of the house, instead of way on the way retarded side of the house. For an example if you experimented using the +4 keyway and it actually measured say -2, I'd want to investigate further, and (maybe) end up additionally using something like an offset keyway. They say it takes about 4 degrees one way or the other to be able to feel it when stomping on it or whatever.

Drag racers and the like sometimes utilize retarded camshaft phasing, because it shifts the effective powerband higher and extends the top speed, so they win races. A bit of advance though helps with the low end torque where most people live and has long been considered a good "mod" on 70s smog era Ford trucks. It isn't really so much of a mod, as a restoration back to where it belongs.

 

UPDATE. Tried matthewq4b idea and it seems to work. When I did a compression test about six months ago it averaged 115 lbs. At the 4* mark 140 lbs. give or take a few lbs. Going back together with now. Only get to work on it a couple hours on most days.
Thank you everyone who replied.

 

The main difference will be when your torque curve kicks in, in a perfect world you'll get it a couple hundred RPM lower with the advance . but if you don't degree it you don't know what world you're in.

Stock always works .