E.P.A.
More Turbo
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 709
Likes: 188
It was until the thread derailed. The aftermarket is evolving. There is a push to develop emmissions friendly aftermarket parts. Many tuners are developing parts and tuning to live with the EGR and DPF/SCR intact. That being said offroad parts are still available you just have to look.
Majority of the sellers of offroad equiptment are outside US borders now out of the EPAs reach. EPA is enforcing the clean air act law thats been around for decades.
The good news is the emissions systems are becoming more reliable as time goes by. Take the 2020 6.7 for example. The 2020s now use little to no EGR past idle hence why DEF consumption is up on the 2020s to combat NOX. I am fine with that trade. I rather fill a DEF tank more often than deal with a clogged EGR system.
Many tuners are developing DPF intact refined tuning to increase power while keeping the DPF happy. Deleting is a personal choice it is not my choice. I have noisy smelly diesels I can fire up at any time I want to make noise and smoke. My 2020 however is my daily ride and I enjoy the clean smell and minimal clatter yet it still has a nice diesel tone.
I do not see EPA coming after the end users as the work to hunt down the end users is little rewarding as a lot of this is also about money. The maximum fine for an end user is pennies in comparison to shops to sell and install offroad defeat equipment. That's why they are after the shops. The fines they slap on these shops brings in some coin. Also the EPA however is still allowing shops to build offroad race trucks as long as they are not registered for public highways. Example I read by one tuner that got busted said they can still install offroad equiptment on a race truck if it is not registered and trailered to the shop etc.
Diesels are not going extinct any time soon. They are stilm working on further emissions advancements such as electric regeneration DPFs. As more EVs and hybrids arrive the consumer will also be faced with more options. I wonder if Ford will build a 6.7 electric hybrid in the same fashion they designed the 2021 F150 powerboost. Could be an interesting way to increase mileage and effeciency.
Majority of the sellers of offroad equiptment are outside US borders now out of the EPAs reach. EPA is enforcing the clean air act law thats been around for decades.
The good news is the emissions systems are becoming more reliable as time goes by. Take the 2020 6.7 for example. The 2020s now use little to no EGR past idle hence why DEF consumption is up on the 2020s to combat NOX. I am fine with that trade. I rather fill a DEF tank more often than deal with a clogged EGR system.
Many tuners are developing DPF intact refined tuning to increase power while keeping the DPF happy. Deleting is a personal choice it is not my choice. I have noisy smelly diesels I can fire up at any time I want to make noise and smoke. My 2020 however is my daily ride and I enjoy the clean smell and minimal clatter yet it still has a nice diesel tone.
I do not see EPA coming after the end users as the work to hunt down the end users is little rewarding as a lot of this is also about money. The maximum fine for an end user is pennies in comparison to shops to sell and install offroad defeat equipment. That's why they are after the shops. The fines they slap on these shops brings in some coin. Also the EPA however is still allowing shops to build offroad race trucks as long as they are not registered for public highways. Example I read by one tuner that got busted said they can still install offroad equiptment on a race truck if it is not registered and trailered to the shop etc.
Diesels are not going extinct any time soon. They are stilm working on further emissions advancements such as electric regeneration DPFs. As more EVs and hybrids arrive the consumer will also be faced with more options. I wonder if Ford will build a 6.7 electric hybrid in the same fashion they designed the 2021 F150 powerboost. Could be an interesting way to increase mileage and effeciency.
Cargo Master
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,277
Likes: 949
This is correct. The keys are in Detroit. Only a dealer with scan tool connected to their key server in Detroit can program your vehicle.
It’s possible to purchase aftermarket programmable ECM’s for the L5P duramax but I think it’ll set you back a few grand.
It’s possible to purchase aftermarket programmable ECM’s for the L5P duramax but I think it’ll set you back a few grand.
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,278
Likes: 4,287
From: SW VA
Many tuners are developing DPF intact refined tuning to increase power while keeping the DPF happy. Deleting is a personal choice it is not my choice. I have noisy smelly diesels I can fire up at any time I want to make noise and smoke. My 2020 however is my daily ride and I enjoy the clean smell and minimal clatter yet it still has a nice diesel tone.
On the other hand, I can breathe normally all day long around a pre-emissions truck. I really enjoy the smell.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,592
Likes: 204
Clean smell? Oh man, my 2016 Cummins was the only truck I've ever had to turn off if I was going to be working around the tailgate or hooking up my trailer. The "clean" exhaust was absolutely disgusting and left me gasping for breath....it feels like trying to breathe in the vacuum of space, but with a noxious smell that burns my nose and singes my sinuses. I could not breathe around it. I can only imagine it being similar to someone with severe asthma going through an asthma attack, desperately grabbing for their inhaler...
On the other hand, I can breathe normally all day long around a pre-emissions truck. I really enjoy the smell.
On the other hand, I can breathe normally all day long around a pre-emissions truck. I really enjoy the smell.
Tuned
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 302
Likes: 10
Clean smell? Oh man, my 2016 Cummins was the only truck I've ever had to turn off if I was going to be working around the tailgate or hooking up my trailer. The "clean" exhaust was absolutely disgusting and left me gasping for breath....it feels like trying to breathe in the vacuum of space, but with a noxious smell that burns my nose and singes my sinuses. I could not breathe around it. I can only imagine it being similar to someone with severe asthma going through an asthma attack, desperately grabbing for their inhaler...
On the other hand, I can breathe normally all day long around a pre-emissions truck. I really enjoy the smell.
On the other hand, I can breathe normally all day long around a pre-emissions truck. I really enjoy the smell.
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 362
Likes: 17
From: Lowcountry
One of the reasons I like this thread is that I offers a wide variety of perspectives.
Well said
I have friends with deleted trucks and I cant say that I'd hang out around tailpipe. Was the 16 Cummins affected by emissions tuning that change how truck ran during emissions testing?
I can respect the opinions of those who don't share mine. I think that it's pretty impressive that the big three can make the power they do with the restrictions. They will continually to get more efficient. Once this happens (if electric doesnt take over) this will be a useless discussion
Clean smell? Oh man, my 2016 Cummins was the only truck I've ever had to turn off if I was going to be working around the tailgate or hooking up my trailer. The "clean" exhaust was absolutely disgusting and left me gasping for breath....it feels like trying to breathe in the vacuum of space, but with a noxious smell that burns my nose and singes my sinuses. I could not breathe around it. I can only imagine it being similar to someone with severe asthma going through an asthma attack, desperately grabbing for their inhaler...
On the other hand, I can breathe normally all day long around a pre-emissions truck. I really enjoy the smell.
On the other hand, I can breathe normally all day long around a pre-emissions truck. I really enjoy the smell.
I can respect the opinions of those who don't share mine. I think that it's pretty impressive that the big three can make the power they do with the restrictions. They will continually to get more efficient. Once this happens (if electric doesnt take over) this will be a useless discussion
Tuned
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 302
Likes: 10
One of the reasons I like this thread is that I offers a wide variety of perspectives.
Well said
I have friends with deleted trucks and I cant say that I'd hang out around tailpipe. Was the 16 Cummins affected by emissions tuning that change how truck ran during emissions testing?
I can respect the opinions of those who don't share mine. I think that it's pretty impressive that the big three can make the power they do with the restrictions. They will continually to get more efficient. Once this happens (if electric doesnt take over) this will be a useless discussion
Well said
I have friends with deleted trucks and I cant say that I'd hang out around tailpipe. Was the 16 Cummins affected by emissions tuning that change how truck ran during emissions testing?
I can respect the opinions of those who don't share mine. I think that it's pretty impressive that the big three can make the power they do with the restrictions. They will continually to get more efficient. Once this happens (if electric doesnt take over) this will be a useless discussion
The main issue of this thread was off road parts being harder to come by. They are still available from many sources outside of the US now as they are out of EPAs jurisdiction. I do still see the EPA busting shops that are installing off road parts on street legal trucks. Many of the large tuners still here in the US are switching to offering only emmissions friendly parts and tuning. It takes refined tuning to make more power and preventing DPF failure.
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,278
Likes: 4,287
From: SW VA
100% stock.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 188
Likes: 73
From: Temecula, Ca.
Growing up in SoCal in the '60s and '70s, I can remember when the skies were brown and it hurt to breathe. 1968 the first of emission control laws went into effect. Prior to modern engine control ( 70's and 80's) systems, trying to make these things work was not a great thing, cars ran like crap. Today the air in SoCal is completely different, with more cars on the road. Today, you have vehicles with 4 cylinders making more power than V8s did in the 70's and 80's and running very clean. Diesels are dying a slow death, at least according to the EPA, fleets are switching to natural gas in many cases. The costs to make a diesel run clean continue to escalate. I do agree, the idiots blowing coal on the roads and TV brought this on themselves.
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 594
Likes: 42
From: fly-over country
Growing up in SoCal in the '60s and '70s, I can remember when the skies were brown and it hurt to breathe. 1968 the first of emission control laws went into effect. Prior to modern engine control ( 70's and 80's) systems, trying to make these things work was not a great thing, cars ran like crap. Today the air in SoCal is completely different, with more cars on the road. Today, you have vehicles with 4 cylinders making more power than V8s did in the 70's and 80's and running very clean. Diesels are dying a slow death, at least according to the EPA, fleets are switching to natural gas in many cases. The costs to make a diesel run clean continue to escalate. I do agree, the idiots blowing coal on the roads and TV brought this on themselves.
Today's coal rollers will at least be able to burn stuff. Maybe they'll like the exhaust water as much as I expect I will.
Last edited by minke; Nov 4, 2020 at 08:05 PM. Reason: spelling tokomak