​​​​Whatever your beliefs in security, that doesn't change the fact that preventing a change to a vehicle's control system in a working vehicle can be easily achieved.

You can invest countless hours cracking a Ford ECU and they just push out an OTA update and you're back to square one. No one will bother. Doesn't even have to be super secure. Hackers don't care, but if your tuner bricks your ECU, I'll bet the company doesn't get a whole lot of business after a fail or two. Particularly when you go hat in hand to Ford asking for help. And that's just one way. You can have phone home algorithms, hash validations, etc all resulting in no start conditions when they fail.

It's silly that the EPA went after all these aftermarket companies when in reality all they needed to do was come up with a law that requires a secured system and apply it to the handful of manufacturers.

 

Agree, the security feature would not have to be unbreakable. Just need to make it difficult enough that any tuner will spend more money to crack and develop work arounds than what they can get selling the product. Then throw in the ability of the OEM to change the security features in software updates. The risk of a tune suddenly no longer working will be a discouragement. But I don't want to have this potentially complicated overlay on my truck nor to I want to have to pay for it. You are talking about implementing a system on every truck when only a small percentage are deleted and tuned.

The other consideration, as mentioned, the EPA would have to come up with a law. That will likely be a long drawn out process with opposing arguments. Once the law is in place, it will take a couple years at least to implement on new vehicles. Likely no impact on existing vehicles. So why go through all that effort and delay when there are laws already in the books. Just enforce them as the EPA is doing. This approach seems to be working as the "delete's" and "tunes" have dried up.

 

Has nothing to do with believe... if there is money to hack it it will be done and stand by my statement nothing is secure. As with all things it’s all about risk reward. In the end they can increase “security” to point the cost out strips those willing to pay for it i.e. reward is gone.


However, if you think It can’t be hacked or communications can’t be manipulated you’re living in a world that does not exist...

 

AMEN!!!!!!

 

This has been going on got years..Most non EPA CA Compliant cant be shipped or sold in the state. The Feds have gone after companies who make programmers to delete EGR, Catalytic Converters etc.I see the Highway Patrol in CA with mobile road side units inspecting vehicles who are randomly selected driving down the street.. I have seen these on side streets and boulevards. Usually see a pick up or two inline.
Removing or modifying smog devices is a no no here in Komie forni stan.

I wish the EPA never messed with diesel pick up trucks.

 

Where there's a will, there's a way. If it came to encrypted PCM's and bricked computers....I'd just yank out the engine and install one that doesn't need it. Built 460, Cummins, etc...people do it every day! Hell, it could even be done cheaper than a delete, tune, and trans mods on these modern trucks.

 

Just to play devils advocate here, the "coal rollers" brought this on all of us and I agree on that part of things. I'm not talking about the small amount of black smoke while towing, I mean the mods they do to completely blackout intersections or sections of roads. I came from a 7.3 Excursion and I must admit that I like being able to let my truck idle a minute or two in the garage without running my family out of the house.

 

I don't understand why people think it is ok for off road to have emissions removed. If that was so tractors would not need DPF. A 30 horse power kubota needs it so why wouldn't every offroad vehicle need it?

 

Because off-road is not (should not be) regulated by the government in any way whatsoever. The government owns the roads...you gotta pay to play (vehicle taxes/fuel taxes/registrations/etc., and follow their rules (traffic laws, emissions standards, safety standards, licensing, etc...) The government does not own the land, and all those traffic rules/laws, licensing, registration, fuel taxes (offroad diesel), does not apply. Why should we have to deal with that emissions crap to use machines on private property? This is supposed to be a FREE country.
The government wants their money, and the tree-huggers are crying because they don't know any better. That is the only reason.
The off-road segment is so small, that emissions is just not an issue. Emissions have reeked absolute havoc on the construction and AG industry. I've been looking at purchasing a skid steer for use around my house, and a 15-year old pre-emissions machine costs about as much as a 5-year old Tier-4 emissions machine. That 5-year old machine was $80k new, but is only worth $19k in 5-years with 2k hours on it. The 15-year old machine is worth the same. with more hours...all because it's reliable with no emissions or computers.
Off-road is also subject to extreme conditions that kills those systems. Vibration, dirt, dust, water, snow, ice, mud, trees/rocks, impacts, lack of maintenance, etc...

The USA is just about the only country that regulates off-road emissions. Follow the money!

 

So I agree with the tractors, machinery, etc. but off-road means exactly that and people are driving their "off-road" trucks on the road.

 

Except, of course, that your air does not stay on your property. It wafts off, joins other people's air, and hangs out over Los Angeles or Houston and hurts people with asthma.

However, like you, I do wonder what portion of pollution comes from off road vehicles.

 

Like anything else in the computer world, someone will come along and defeat it. That's what keeps security outfits in business.

 

GM is trying to make the E99 ECU in the C8 uncrackable for tuning but there are ways around that.

 

That would be like banning ATVs in America because a tiny percent of the people drove them on the road. You shouldn't slap down a blanket law for everyone for the actions of a few. Get caught running off-road stuff on the road? Pay the price, but the government shouldn't make 100% of the people suffer the consequences.

​​​​​​​Oh boy...

 

No vehicle needs it.