atf is my first choice.

 

I don’t disagree with many of your points. But the argument that we as Americans can’t do anything for the environment doesn’t hold water.

 

Arrogant White House puts a coal lobbyist in charge of the EPA?

The basic problem is once carbon dioxide (CO2) goes up in the atmosphere it stays there for 300-1000 years. All one need do is look a the CO2 parts per million figures / charts (that NASA and NOAA track) to see how the problem is growing. Charts are ugly - going parabolic of recent.

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-acces...imatology-data

 

I agree that EGR, DEF, and DPF are not the best solutions to reducing pollution. With that said, not every solution is perfect the first time you design and implement it. You can see that in the automotive industry today. We went from leaded gas to unleaded, bi-annual smog tests, cat converters, ultra low sulfur fuel, EGR on both gas and diesel, DEF, DPF, etc. Many things are never perfect from the start but get better over time. Just because it sucks now doesn't mean it sucks forever. And remember, these solutions have long-term goals where the benefits may not be immediately tangible today, but over time, we will see the benefits.

 

being someone in construction and ag I get stuck with the upfront bills.

 

The issue I have with US environmental issues and laws are US consumers. We live in the highest level of prosperity and yell and scream how bad we pollute, but reality is for energy in to product out for US based manufacturers we are some of the best in the world.

The issue is majority that scream the loudest are the same that have piles of third world products that don’t abide by any environmental standards. The consumer is mostly to blame for the pollution by choosing to buy the cheapest crap they can find. Our government was/is to blame as well by rewarding offshoring of manufacturing.

My solution has always been whatever laws our manufacturing has to abide by any products entering has to be manufactured under the same environmental requirements.

Not one to look for government for most things, but the overall consumer has proven cheap is better than quality and caring what impact what they are buying has on the environment.

 

"Peeing in the pool." Good analogy.

 

Thats not a problem at all CO2 levels have risen and fallen as the climate has changed ever since the earth has been here, samples from ice core drilling show that the CO2 levels and temperature has been higher than it is now many time. Climate change is a natural cycle that will always happen, the population has been fooled into believing that we can control it.

 

100% agree. We can't force other countries to build their industrial sectors the way we think they should be built. But we can use our wallets to not buy their goods, which may force them to rethink their strategy while also supporting American businesses that do care about our values.

 

It should be noted that none of the emissions states being discussed reduce the “carbon footprint”. Some actually increase it.

 

Wow. I thought we were talking about deleting DPFs.

 

We indeed are talking about DPFs, and all other factory installed emissions equipment, as well as aftermarket developed emissions delete equipment, including tunes intended to make a vehicle operable in instances where factory emissions equipment has been deleted or defeated.

We are talking about the EPA's crackdown on the rampant misuse of the euphemistic "for off road use only" terminology that was a caveat in name but not in practice. We are talking about the EPA's stepped up enforcement over the last two years that has taken down many well known vendor names serving the light truck diesel aftermarket.

In addition, what we probably should be talking about is what is already happening this year, hampered only by Covid, and what is going to happen for the next two years, following the EPA's triennial budgetary fiscal year period FY2020-2023.

Initiated in August of 2018, during the current administration, and following a solicitation requesting public input from all who might be affected, including us, as posted in the Federal Register Notice of Pubic Comment Period for EPA NCI FY2020-2023, the results of which are summarized in the EPA's Response To Public Comments Received in June of 2019, the EPA's Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance (OECA) established six (6) new National Compliance Initiatives which are explained in more detail in the EPA FY2020-2023 National Compliance Initiatives Memorandum.

A National Compliance Initiative is just how it sounds. The EPA is taking the initiative to enforce national compliance with current environmental law. Of the six (6) enforcement initiatives that the EPA identified in need of their most focused attention during this three year fiscal period, one of those initiatives is directly related to the topic of this thread: Stopping Aftermarket Defeat Devices For Vehicles And Engines.

So yes, it is really happening. I urge anyone concerned about what is happening to click on the links above. Really. Better to know now than be forced to find out later. The homework is already done, so that you don't even have to search. Just click each link and read. This is what to expect for the next two years. This is not a matter of blue vs red, or liberal vs conservative. This is a matter of agency focus on the enforcement of current law. Not the creation of new law, but the enforcement of existing law.

The election results will not change the trajectory of these already budgeted initiatives. The current administration established them, and even if the next administration isn't the current administration, it is improbable that a different administration would undo them. So this isn't a matter of politics. This is a matter of conserving federal resources in the effort to attain compliance by focusing enforcement on a group that has distinguished themselves prominently for non compliance. At this point in the game, this isn't even a matter of environmental science. It is purely a matter of compliance.

Calling the President an obese turd, or the former First Lady a homosexual, or putting down each other with other personal insults (all removed from this thread, btw, and please help us keep it that way) will not change the fact that this enforcement is happening. So if we are to "grow up" and be adults about this impending future, we should discuss the facts related to the EPA's enforcement. What are the laws that the EPA is seeking compliance with? What are the laws that folks want to continue to get away with breaking? Should the laws apply only to those who are law abiding? Are there alternative aftermarket performance enhancements available that are in full compliance with the law? Is there a way to get away with non compliant products? Is there a way to encourage vendors to create compliant products?

That's what we are talking about. For anyone wanting to still talk personal insults, this isn't the forum for that conversation.

Yes, we are all forum members and truck owners, but in the greater scheme of being citizens and Patriots... it is hard to hold one's head high... while looking over one's shoulder.

 

It was until the thread derailed. The aftermarket is evolving. There is a push to develop emmissions friendly aftermarket parts. Many tuners are developing parts and tuning to live with the EGR and DPF/SCR intact. That being said offroad parts are still available you just have to look.

​​​​ Majority of the sellers of offroad equiptment are outside US borders now out of the EPAs reach. EPA is enforcing the clean air act law thats been around for decades.

The good news is the emissions systems are becoming more reliable as time goes by. Take the 2020 6.7 for example. The 2020s now use little to no EGR past idle hence why DEF consumption is up on the 2020s to combat NOX. I am fine with that trade. I rather fill a DEF tank more often than deal with a clogged EGR system.

Many tuners are developing DPF intact refined tuning to increase power while keeping the DPF happy. Deleting is a personal choice it is not my choice. I have noisy smelly diesels I can fire up at any time I want to make noise and smoke. My 2020 however is my daily ride and I enjoy the clean smell and minimal clatter yet it still has a nice diesel tone.

I do not see EPA coming after the end users as the work to hunt down the end users is little rewarding as a lot of this is also about money. The maximum fine for an end user is pennies in comparison to shops to sell and install offroad defeat equipment. That's why they are after the shops. The fines they slap on these shops brings in some coin. Also the EPA however is still allowing shops to build offroad race trucks as long as they are not registered for public highways. Example I read by one tuner that got busted said they can still install offroad equiptment on a race truck if it is not registered and trailered to the shop etc.
​​
Diesels are not going extinct any time soon. They are stilm working on further emissions advancements such as electric regeneration DPFs. As more EVs and hybrids arrive the consumer will also be faced with more options. I wonder if Ford will build a 6.7 electric hybrid in the same fashion they designed the 2021 F150 powerboost. Could be an interesting way to increase mileage and effeciency.

 

Thank you Y2KW57

 

Couldn't have said it better @Y2KW57. Thank you for bringing facts, data, and reasonability to the discussion.