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Believe me, I wish someone had told me before I used that kit.
On the plus side, I was getting really good at taking the transmission in and out of my truck...
Read thru that and am dumbfounded... I've talked to a few transmission guys since my post who have used them, and they heavily endorsed it as an option when there's nothing g wrong with the original direct drum. Now, I'm very concerned. I don't wanna do this twice.
Believe me, I wish someone had told me before I used that kit.
On the plus side, I was getting really good at taking the transmission in and out of my truck...
I've reached out to Transtar about this issue since I ordered this a week ago and it's still in transit. My question to them is regarding failure due to lubrication issues, and if there's a specific correct way to install the kit.
I also discussed the issue on a 4R100 builders group on Facebook. Some of the guys there knew about the kit and had used it. While they didn't see failures when they used it, they had heard of failures like yours.
I'll post the response from Transtar when I get one.
Still trying to get an answer out of Transtar...
In the mean time, I started installing the Transgo HD2 kit for the 4R100. Have the big valve body cleaned, modified and reassembled with the new pieces. The lower VB and the accumulator will be done tomorrow.
One thing the instructions are not clear on:
My VB is the type 2, and did require the .110 hole.
Step 4 is where I ran into a question. When installing the pistion (bottom type shown in the image), yellow spring and spacer, they will not touch the end plug, you will not feel any pressure on the plug. I called Transgo to confirm that was correct.
@JEV - How did you install the inner race to the drum? My drum has two holes under the 'cogs' on top of the drum. The inner race supplied with the kit has four lubrication holes, each one has a channel going down to where fluid should be flowing out of the drum and into the race/sprag. I'll try to get some pics later.
Ok guys, I hope this isn't a stupid question..
Playing it safe, and since I had them, I replaced the bushings in the direct drum. After assembling the direct and forward drums, I placed both (with assembly lube and transmision fluid) on the center support (with new seals) on my bench to air test. Both seemed to pass the air test.
However, the direct drum will not spin on the support hub. In fact, to remove it, I need to use a screw driver to gently nudge it up to a point where I can remove the drum.
Is this normal after replacing the bushings? I expected them to be tighter since they were new, but this seems a little excessive.
Pretty sure I found out what the problem was. The very short, but larger diameter bushing (the one that rides closest to the center support) was not press fit in to the direct drum. I was able to push it in with my thumbs down to where it should rest. In fact, when removing the drum on two occasions, that bearing stayed on the center support hub. This movement, when placing the drum onto the support hub, also caused some stripping of the bushing material right on the edge in one small area. That little movement caused the drum to bind and be VERY difficult to spin. Without that bushing, the drum spins fairly easily - about what I would expect for all new bushings. I'm going to order a new bushing as I don't feel comfortable using one with damage.
Feels good so far. 80 miles now. Reverse isn't much different, little quicker engagement. 1 - 2 & 2 - 3 shifts are snappy. Into OD is too. Not hard, just quick. Though, the 1 - 2 shift at low speed/low throttle can be a bit sudden. Overall, it's performing very well.
That's good to hear. With almost 160k on mine but not many miles towing you've at least started planting ideas in my mind when it comes time for a rebuild. Hopefully not for a while but who knows... My fluid has been kept up and has always been clean.
I'm by no means an expert, but IMHO if you've got that many tow miles, and have been on top of maintenance, I wouldn't worry about it just yet. My reasoning is, perhaps, a bit simplistic.
The longevity of the 4R100 really boils down to three things:
1. Maintenance
2. Use
3. Luck
With the exception of the damage shown above caused by the Torrington bearing, the internals of mine were in amazing shape - even the mechanical diode. The frictions still had the cross hatch in them. I saw no indication this transmission had ever been removed, even the front seal appeared to be the stock one - with 220k miles.
As long as its maintained and not abused, and you don't have any internal failures, you should be good to go. Yes, shift correction kits can extend the life of the unit if you tow heavy and a lot, and after putting the miles on my rebuilt one with the HD2 kit, its an amazing difference.
Doing it over, I'd probably go with the Sonnax kit, honestly. It's more expensive, but also more complete. The HD2 doesn't come with all of the steel accumulator valves, and I'd have had to buy those if my rebuild kit didn't have them. If I'd have been a bit more selective on my kit, I could've saved a couple dollars, or spent more by going with Kolene steels. I don't tow much, so I chose to go with regular stamped steel and Red Eagle frictions. Seemed to be a happy medium for my needs.
There are things that, apparently, no rebuild kit comes with. The output shaft snap ring, for example. Ford recommends those always be changed during a rebuild. Locally, like a lot of other parts, it wasn't available. The Torrington bearing that sits on the forward planet hub is another that didn't come with the kit I bought, which DID come with many other bearings. For that, I found a transmission shop 50 miles away who had them. The guy gave it to me because I had to drive so far away. He also told me if I need any hard parts for my F250, he's got a lot - wish I had known about him earlier.
One issue I did have with the kit was questionable bushing quality. The bushing that fits into the direct drum, and rides on the center support was not correct. I could push it by hand into the drum. When installed on the center support for the first air test, it was nearly impossible to spin. So, I had to order a replacement.
This build should've been over in mid-September at the latest. Due to having to wait for parts shipment, it took a lot longer than it should have. Buy local where you can!
I'm by no means an expert, but IMHO if you've got that many tow miles, and have been on top of maintenance, I wouldn't worry about it just yet. My reasoning is, perhaps, a bit simplistic.
The longevity of the 4R100 really boils down to three things:
1. Maintenance
2. Use
3. Luck
With the exception of the damage shown above caused by the Torrington bearing, the internals of mine were in amazing shape - even the mechanical diode. The frictions still had the cross hatch in them. I saw no indication this transmission had ever been removed, even the front seal appeared to be the stock one - with 220k miles.
As long as its maintained and not abused, and you don't have any internal failures, you should be good to go. Yes, shift correction kits can extend the life of the unit if you tow heavy and a lot, and after putting the miles on my rebuilt one with the HD2 kit, its an amazing difference.
Doing it over, I'd probably go with the Sonnax kit, honestly. It's more expensive, but also more complete. The HD2 doesn't come with all of the steel accumulator valves, and I'd have had to buy those if my rebuild kit didn't have them. If I'd have been a bit more selective on my kit, I could've saved a couple dollars, or spent more by going with Kolene steels. I don't tow much, so I chose to go with regular stamped steel and Red Eagle frictions. Seemed to be a happy medium for my needs.
There are things that, apparently, no rebuild kit comes with. The output shaft snap ring, for example. Ford recommends those always be changed during a rebuild. Locally, like a lot of other parts, it wasn't available. The Torrington bearing that sits on the forward planet hub is another that didn't come with the kit I bought, which DID come with many other bearings. For that, I found a transmission shop 50 miles away who had them. The guy gave it to me because I had to drive so far away. He also told me if I need any hard parts for my F250, he's got a lot - wish I had known about him earlier.
One issue I did have with the kit was questionable bushing quality. The bushing that fits into the direct drum, and rides on the center support was not correct. I could push it by hand into the drum. When installed on the center support for the first air test, it was nearly impossible to spin. So, I had to order a replacement.
This build should've been over in mid-September at the latest. Due to having to wait for parts shipment, it took a lot longer than it should have. Buy local where you can!
That a really nice summary. I think I have the low towing and good maintenance on my side. Luck is up for discussion. We have a place about 5 minutes from my house call Tim's Transmission. It was the dad's and it passed on to the son. I've drove past it for years and decided to look them up. They have almost a perfect 5 star from every rating system I saw. I will probably start there, possibly just by seeing what he would charge to install the shift kit. Depending on the difference, I may just have him disassemble and go through it. Replace anything of concern and put it back in. But that is a little bit down the road yet. I will definitely keep the Sonnax kit in mind. My cousin has the Tugger in his E4OD/4R100 hybrid in his 7.3L and he loves it. I am typically a do-it yourselfer, but if it is a tranny rebuild, I will buy another to rebuild and swap it in. The F250 is my DD for hauling my son around when the wife is at work so I can't have it off the road too long.
This may not be absolutely necessary, but it didn't take much reading to convince me.
My rebuild kit didn't come with it, but I also replaced the overdrive sprag as well.
If you have a gas engine, and you end up rebuilding your 4R, I'd upgrade both the forward and rear planets to steel. Also, if you have the half spline forward drum, I'd replace that with the full spline unit. All are much stronger than stock.
Since mine was a diode transmission, I had two choices, well three, really.
1. Replace the direct drum with a sprag type
2. Use the conversion kit (converts diode style drum to use the sprag)
3. Reuse the diode
Choice 1 was quite expensive at the time, even used in ebay
Choice 2 is the one I made, we'll see how it goes
Choice 3 wasn't gonna happen
So far the conversion seems to work fine for me, although I'm only at 106 miles...
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