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Those that follow the Excursion forum might have seen my posts about resurrecting mine. About two years ago, my Ex developed a fear of moving forward. Reverse was great! Reading and learning all I have over the last month, I'm fairly certain one of the feed bolts under the accumulator loosened up. The Ex will move forward and get up to speed under light throttle. I never really reved it up high - over 2,000 RPM for a fraction of a second, but I'm pretty sure the damage to the clutches was enough to warrant a complete rebuild.
After getting a 2001 F250 with the same drive train, my initial plan was to do a trans swap. While the F250 had some rust issues, with the exception of a small oil leak, mechanically it runs fine - been driving it since March. So instead of pulling two transmissions, I decided to rebuild the one in the Excursion. I've got the ATSG manual and CD for the 4R100, and I'll also be following along with the videos from Transmission Bench on YouTube. I don't have pics of some things, like removing the skid plate and trans cross-member. For those who have done this, I'm sure the following summary will be boring, and I may miss a few things.
My Ex as 220k miles on it, and I expected a fight in certain areas. One area was the exhaust. Since my Ex has a custom dual exhaust, I had to cut one pipe behind the transfer case. The two bolts holding the flange to the DS header had to be cut as well. One area the DID surprise me was the TC nuts. While a bit cumbersome to get to, they came off quite easy. So easy in fact, I had to tighten a couple up in order to rotate the TC to position the next nut. Same with the trans bell housing bolts. Using about 3 feet of 3/8" extensions and a 3/8" ratchet, I had no problem breaking them free. Backed them out the rest of the way with my Porter Cable 20v impact.
Since I'm doing this solo, I had to make a few things to my my life easier, and the job safer. First, I made two fixtures out of wood, one to help with the transfer case removal, the other for the transmission.
Transfer case fixture
This was my solution for the awkward shape of the transfer case. Was it entirely necessary to go crazy with the multiple resting point points? Maybe not.
As you can see, though, it's fairly well captured. I guess the weight of the transfer case is around 100 - 110 pounds. When I drilled the holes to attach the fixture to the jack, to approximate the center of gravity of the t-case, I went two inches to the right. Not sure how close I was, but at no time on the jack was the case difficult to move or appeared to be unstable.
Here's the box I made for the transmission. It fits fairly snug around the pan, with the pan bolts resting on the 1" x 6" pine. I chose 1" thick (really 3/4") stock since it would fit nicely between the MPLS and the pan. The bottom is 1/2" PT ply wood, and as you can see in a couple areas I added some strengthening ribs using scrap wood. Everything is glued and screwed. What I've read is the 4R100 weights anywhere from 200 - 250 lbs depending on if it has fluid in it or not. I drained the fluid, well, as much as I could before removing. I did use a ratchet strap to secure the trans to the jack. While fairly well balanced overall, the wobbly platform was not a confidence builder.
In the garage and no leakage...
I expected to see some sort of leakage from the pump seal. Being a 2001, had Ford changed the seal composition by then? Several things lead me to believe this trans has been rebuilt previously, the lack of any sign of a leak after 220k miles is one of them. I can't say for sure until I see the insides. I'll know pretty quickly when I get to the direct drum...
Yesterday, I removed the pump, coast clutch assembly, O.D. clutch pack, O.D. carrier, intermediate/O.D. cylinder and center support, and the direct drum. The only thing remarkable I found, if you want to call it that, is that after 220k miles, the mechanical diode is still in tact and functional - I was hoping it had been rebuilt at some point, as I wasn't relishing the extra $$$ being spent. Even the O.D. snap ring was still in it's proper groove.
Mechanical diode direct drum
I was actually rather please with the condition of the bushings. Up to this point, all of the steels and clutches looked quite good, and had me hopeful a few other items were in good shape. That was, until I dug down to the forward drum assembly Upon pulling the forward clutch assembly out, I found this sitting on the forward planet...
Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't look quite right
That thrust bearing has seen better days, for sure.
It took me almost an hour to remove the snap ring - it was somehow wedged by the belville spring - didn't know quite how....
Rollers from the thrust bearing got wedged underneath the spring. I can't believe that snap ring didn't break.
Scorched, scraped and generally fubar'd
There was one friction plate with material on both sides still, and it's black
All kinds of debris from that thrust bearing
And damage. You can see the dimpling of the drum by the rollers all over the area where the belville spring is supposed to rest. Cleaning it isn't going to be a problem. I have no idea yet if it should be reused after the beating it took. Any transmission guru's care to give a recommendation?
More debris and scorching
I had to use a mechanic's pick to gently pry under the apply plate and slowly work it up and out of the drum.
Forward planet has had better days
Looks like it's been beaten, mangled and abused.
Mystery thrust washer
This thrust washer confuses me. It was on the forward planet, under the destroyed thrust bearing (lips were down inside the snout of the planet). The confusing part is I can find no diagram showing that it's supposed to be there. It's not in the transmission bench videos, nor is it in the ATSG manual. Pages 77 thru 79 deal with this area of the complete forward/direct assembly, and that washer is not there. Nor is it discussed in the Transmission Bench videos I'm referencing (neither is the mechanical diode, but that's another story). I've had no transmission work done since I've owned it, beyond fluid changes. So my main question, assuming it's been there since it rolled off the factory line, is why was it installed and why doesn't any material covering this washer seem to exist? Anyone have any ideas? @Mark Kovalsky@mueckster If you guys have any input, certainly would be appreciated.
Regardless of any of that... I still need to disassemble and inspect the pump, then start ordering parts....
@Mark Kovalsky - based on the damage to the forward clutch drum, would you consider it to be reusable? I'm inclined to say no, but I'm no expert.
I've shown these pics to one re-builder who says with the amount of metal that could be in the system, I should probably just buy another transmission. Anytime there's a failure like this, metal goes everywhere - do they just scrap the transmission? That made no sense to me. Any thoughts guys?
I have seen this failure many times, these needle bearings can make a mess of things for sure. With those chipped teeth on the planet there is a good chance the teeth on the inner sun gear in the shell and the teeth in the ring gear that fits on the planet will be chipped too so look closely.
The forward drum may be reusable because the bearing has its own race that will sit down into the drum. So look closely at the surface that the bearing sits to make sure its flat and also the surface the thrust washer rides for smoothness. From what I can see in the picture it seems fine one you remove what's left of that bearing race. The piston may be damaged, I can see the ring under the bevel spring is out of place.
The mysterious thrust washer is actually the other bearing race from the bearing that failed, that bearing is a three piece bearing (needle bearing sandwiched between two bearing races). Funny thing is that they way you have it pictured appears to be correct because the inner lip of that race goes into the bearing in the direction of the drum. I dont have a drum for one of these laying around but I did find a good used bearing so you can see how it goes together, Your new bearing will come all together as one.
Due to the metal in the system, I recommend replacing the solenoid body. Everything else can be disassembled and cleaned.
Thanks for the info @Mark Kovalsky . I had planned on getting a new solenoid body anyway, just to be safe. I'm seeing a lot of these forward drums available for diesel models. Can these be used in the V10, or should I stick with V10 parts and the same friction/steel count, etc...? IIRC correctly, mine has 4 each, plus the wavy, apply and backing plate.
I have seen this failure many times, these needle bearings can make a mess of things for sure. With those chipped teeth on the planet there is a good chance the teeth on the inner sun gear in the shell and the teeth in the ring gear that fits on the planet will be chipped too so look closely.
Yeah, the sun gear teeth are damaged, and so is the ring gear. Looking at replacements now.
Originally Posted by jk080
The forward drum may be reusable because the bearing has its own race that will sit down into the drum. So look closely at the surface that the bearing sits to make sure its flat and also the surface the thrust washer rides for smoothness. From what I can see in the picture it seems fine one you remove what's left of that bearing race. The piston may be damaged, I can see the ring under the bevel spring is out of place.
For the price I'm seeing on used ones in better shape than mine, I'll probably just replace it. Billet is out of the question, though, lol.
Originally Posted by jk080
The mysterious thrust washer is actually the other bearing race from the bearing that failed, that bearing is a three piece bearing (needle bearing sandwiched between two bearing races). Funny thing is that they way you have it pictured appears to be correct because the inner lip of that race goes into the bearing in the direction of the drum. I dont have a drum for one of these laying around but I did find a good used bearing so you can see how it goes together, Your new bearing will come all together as one.
Actually, that makes perfect sense now, as I was wondering what happened to the rest of the bearing. Didn't THINK I moved the bottom race of the thrust bearing, but I might have. I remember being quite disappointed at the damage by that time, lol.
Last edited by 74Mav; Aug 20, 2020 at 08:54 AM.
Reason: I can't spell...
Found more damage during closer inspection of the forward drum components:
While I didn't see any chipped teeth in the ring gear, There's needle bearing remnants basically pressed/friction welded in between the teeth.
The sun gear is history.
I'm amazed, so far, there doesn't seem to be any damage to the other sub-assemblies. I still have to pull apart the pump. Been trying to source the hard parts needed to rebuild this. I don't use my truck for towing much, and being a V10 I don't think I need a $5,000+ BTS rebuild. Though, after seeing that aluminum planet, replacing some things might be on the agenda...
Thanks for the info @Mark Kovalsky . I had planned on getting a new solenoid body anyway, just to be safe. I'm seeing a lot of these forward drums available for diesel models. Can these be used in the V10, or should I stick with V10 parts and the same friction/steel count, etc...? IIRC correctly, mine has 4 each, plus the wavy, apply and backing plate.
It's been too long for me to be sure, but I think the forward is the same in the V10 and the diesel.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say these (fwd clutch backing plate on the left, fwd apply plate on the right) are unusable. If I'm wrong, by all means someone correct me.
Fairly nice and smooth all around.
This doesn't look or feel bad to the eye, up close shot with a zoom has me questioning.
Pump gears. I'm a little outta my element on these... To the touch, they're nice and smooth. I can feel a slight difference with my fingernail.
Pump gears. I'm a little outta my element on these... To the touch, they're nice and smooth. I can feel a slight difference with my fingernail.
Much like the pump gears, the pump halves feel very smooth, so I'm not sure if this is excessive or not.
Much like the pump gears, the pump halves feel very smooth, so I'm not sure if this is excessive or not.
The extremely novice transmission repair guy in me says I should buy another pump. There was no debris in the pump, no metal splinters or anything like that, and all of the valves in the pump move freely back into position when tested with a mechanic's pick. So I'm assuming this is just 220k miles worth of wear. All of the wear areas to the pump halves and pump gears are smooth to the touch, the pictures looks worse than they 'feel'. There is a slight difference when doing the 'fingernail test'.
