460 engine stumbling under load
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what is this cable here? Perhaps the cables also have to be pinned for the correct application?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Rotund....c100005.m1851
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Rotund....c100005.m1851
Steve
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Oh boy.
I just did some googling on that Rotunda adapter part number, and just discovered a device called a Moates Quarterhorse.
This appears to be essentially a modern version of the EEC-IV Monitor.
https://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-...rds-p-199.html
It's like $250.
I'm going to do some more research on this thing, but I think this may be the tool I have been looking for, at a reasonable cost.
Edit: oh my gosh, I think this is the tool I should have found to begin with. I can't believe after finding the Sneec-IV and the Tweecer that I did not run across this device already. Crap.
Steve
I just did some googling on that Rotunda adapter part number, and just discovered a device called a Moates Quarterhorse.
This appears to be essentially a modern version of the EEC-IV Monitor.
https://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-...rds-p-199.html
It's like $250.
I'm going to do some more research on this thing, but I think this may be the tool I have been looking for, at a reasonable cost.
Edit: oh my gosh, I think this is the tool I should have found to begin with. I can't believe after finding the Sneec-IV and the Tweecer that I did not run across this device already. Crap.
Steve
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Well, bad news.
My Ford dealership won't look at it. Despite my calling earlier in the week and them telling me they will work on Ford RVs, when I showed up this morning with my 30-year-old Ford the service manager said they no longer have the manuals or equipment or technicians that would be able to figure it out.
I heard back from the Moates guy and he is not sure that his product will work with my ECM. I sent him a picture of it so he can decide. But even if it does, evidently the software to make it work costs more on top of the hardware.
So, it looks like I'm back to trying to find or make an extension cable that I can fish through the hole in the firewall for the computer so that I can plug one end into the harness and the other into the ECM while it lays on the passenger floorboard.
I'm going to go ahead and try to drive it to Virginia (11 hour one-way trip) the weekend after next. Maybe the thing will up and really die so at least the problem becomes obvious.
Steve
My Ford dealership won't look at it. Despite my calling earlier in the week and them telling me they will work on Ford RVs, when I showed up this morning with my 30-year-old Ford the service manager said they no longer have the manuals or equipment or technicians that would be able to figure it out.
I heard back from the Moates guy and he is not sure that his product will work with my ECM. I sent him a picture of it so he can decide. But even if it does, evidently the software to make it work costs more on top of the hardware.
So, it looks like I'm back to trying to find or make an extension cable that I can fish through the hole in the firewall for the computer so that I can plug one end into the harness and the other into the ECM while it lays on the passenger floorboard.
I'm going to go ahead and try to drive it to Virginia (11 hour one-way trip) the weekend after next. Maybe the thing will up and really die so at least the problem becomes obvious.
Steve
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The moates and tweecer software is for the mass air flow ecm’s so they can be tuned for performance engines. Guys that change speed density ecu like you have to mass air flow ecu’s.
Did you verify on a test drive that unlocking the torque converter with the brake pedal that this isn’t the converter clutch shuddering ?
Can you feel this miss by lightly brake torque in the drive way ?
Steve
Did you verify on a test drive that unlocking the torque converter with the brake pedal that this isn’t the converter clutch shuddering ?
Can you feel this miss by lightly brake torque in the drive way ?
Steve
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Did you verify on a test drive that unlocking the torque converter with the brake pedal that this isn’t the converter clutch shuddering ?
Can you feel this miss by lightly brake torque in the drive way ?
Steve
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Test drive in OD and unlock the torque converter when it’s acting up , do it numerous times to feel if it effects what you are describing as a miss. The engine rpm’s will only increase slightly 2-300 rpms with the converter unlocked compared to forcing a down shift.
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Went for a test drive this morning on my usual "test loop". Unfortunately the problem didn't really want to present this morning. I couple of times it was barely stumbling going up the hill at 45 MPH, and if I tapped the brakes I could hear the converter unlock and the RPMs pick up a small amount, and the stumble did seem to go away. But the stumble was so slight that it's hard to tell if it went away or if it was masked by the RPM increase.
I did play with turning OD on and off vs. tapping the break when in OD with the converter locked up and there is, as expected, a big difference. Turning OD off results in a downshift to 3rd whereas tapping the break just unlocks the converter.
Maybe this whole time it was the transmission?
At it's worst, this "stumble" was a rocking, bucking, jerking scenario. It sure felt like a missing engine to me. But now I'm not so sure.
Steve
I did play with turning OD on and off vs. tapping the break when in OD with the converter locked up and there is, as expected, a big difference. Turning OD off results in a downshift to 3rd whereas tapping the break just unlocks the converter.
Maybe this whole time it was the transmission?
At it's worst, this "stumble" was a rocking, bucking, jerking scenario. It sure felt like a missing engine to me. But now I'm not so sure.
Steve
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The e4od will only lock the torque converter in 3rd gear and overdrive. I cant imagine that the minor rpms increase and load reduction on the motor with the converter unlocked could mask a true miss fire. Maybe you do have a converter clutch chattering ? Try driving around in 2nd gear at low rpms under heavy load and see if you feel it.
Steve
Steve
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My converter started to shudder at 110k and the symptom was as you described how your rv drives. Sometimes it would be very slight shudder and at other times severe. A quick touch of the brake pedal would stop the shudder and then it would not do it again for a while.
I Replaced the converter immediately so as not to put worn clutch material in the trans. I have 30k more miles since i replaced the converter and no issues.
I Replaced the converter immediately so as not to put worn clutch material in the trans. I have 30k more miles since i replaced the converter and no issues.
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I have about 86K on the RV currently.
I did a complete fluid change and filter change, using Motorcraft Mercon V fluid (which the bottle said is intended for previous Mercon applications). I bought out all the fluid Oreilly's had (18 quarts) and I'm currently still low enough on fluid that I'm not registering on the dipstick. So the article I followed said I needed 20 quarts and that sounds about right. I'll go pick up 5 extra quarts from the Ford dealership on Monday and top it off and have some to spare.
On my test drives I could not get any shudder anymore.
I wonder if all along this was shudder. I'll feel real stupid of that was the case. I would have sworn this was an engine problem.
Well, I'm driving it on a 22-hour round trip next weekend, so we'll see how it goes.
Steve
I did a complete fluid change and filter change, using Motorcraft Mercon V fluid (which the bottle said is intended for previous Mercon applications). I bought out all the fluid Oreilly's had (18 quarts) and I'm currently still low enough on fluid that I'm not registering on the dipstick. So the article I followed said I needed 20 quarts and that sounds about right. I'll go pick up 5 extra quarts from the Ford dealership on Monday and top it off and have some to spare.
On my test drives I could not get any shudder anymore.
I wonder if all along this was shudder. I'll feel real stupid of that was the case. I would have sworn this was an engine problem.
Well, I'm driving it on a 22-hour round trip next weekend, so we'll see how it goes.
Steve
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I believe that I may tentatively say that I have fixed the problem. My RV has almost 90K miles on it. I do not think I have ever changed the transmission fluid. I think some years back I had the filter replaced, but I don't think I did a full fluid flush. Turns out, the old Mercon fluid only had a service life of 30K miles. So I was 3X overdue for a fluid change. I did a full fluid change (20 quarts of Motorcraft Mercon V, which says is a replacement for Mercon), and it seems that the problem has gone away.
I feel pretty silly having been chasing a non-existent engine miss, but I would have bet money that the engine itself was stumbling. The brake-tapping to disengage the lock-up was what got me looking at the transmission as tapping the brake seemed to make the stumble stop.
I'll be driving the rig on a 22-hour round trip this coming weekend; we'll see how it goes.
Steve
I feel pretty silly having been chasing a non-existent engine miss, but I would have bet money that the engine itself was stumbling. The brake-tapping to disengage the lock-up was what got me looking at the transmission as tapping the brake seemed to make the stumble stop.
I'll be driving the rig on a 22-hour round trip this coming weekend; we'll see how it goes.
Steve