Originally Posted by tseekins

This makes me as giddy as a kid in an ice cream shop. Ram is making serious inroads in the HD market and that's even better. Ford and GM need not rest on their laurels but better take notice and up their games.

Originally Posted by Akley88

what is helping ram is the improvement in interior and the massive rebates that are offering. They are also planning on continuing the ram classic as cheaper offering.

Originally Posted by DSLTRK60

It's just another consumable product. Keep a truck for a year or two and trade.

Ram simply uses third world assembly (Mexico) with low investment in truck R&D (stuff like suspension durability, life cycle durations, extended environmental tests, etc.). Some group at FCA has discovered even with the recall payouts, the cost saved is greater than spending to produce a quality, well engineered product in the first place.

With the initial investment and production lower in cost, FCA can easily undercut FoMoCo (and GM to an extent), who largely build most of their trucks in the USA using US sourced parts like the engines, transmissions and axles.

Originally Posted by jschira

This must be one of the most uninformed opinions I have seen here at FTE in quite some time. FCA is spending $billions$ building a new plant in the US. The first new US assembly plant built by the Big 3 in many years. And you should note that GM is actually closing US plants (think Lordstown).

Here is a list of the US plants operated by FCA, some of which have been around since the 1930s:


I should probably also point out that the current 6.7L PowerStroke diesel is built in Chihuahua, Mexico. And the 3.0L PowerStroke is made in Dagenham, England.

And look under the hood of any Ford SD pickup, you will see plenty of "Hecho en Mexico" labels. We had an ice storm down here in the Dallas area a few years ago that shut down the highways for a few days. KTP had to shut down because all the parts coming from Mexico could not get to Louisville.

And yes, they make Rams in Mexico, but they also make them in Sterling Heights, Michigan.

Originally Posted by DSLTRK60

This is a truck forum. Everything I've typed above about RAM trucks is true. The HD trucks are issue prone with as many as ten recalls a given year. Brackets snapping off of frames, loosening steering components and trim pieces that warp and fall off is a sign of either poor quality/engineering & little testing. A 1500 that crumples like a beer can with the more difficult IIHS tests and air bags that don't deploy.

The aggregate truck buying population also agrees with me. RAM is consistently at the bottom of the barrel in reliability and quality surveys across all forums. The RAMs growth in market share is certainly helped by the consumer keeping trucks for less amounts of time.

Are you denying that RAM undercuts the competition? I could've bought a 3500 DIESEL for about $1500 more then I spent on the F-350 GAS. Ford/GM couldn't touch a similarly equipped RAM truck cost. And this is shopping across multiple states.

Yes, I'm not saying every little piece on the GM and Ford Product is made here & i'm not happy the 6.7 PS is made in MX, but all the major components mostly are, like the body, frame, gas engines, transmissions, axles and transfer cases. The vehicles are assembled here, a HUGE job opportunity made available to our country. The F-150 and Tundra are the most American Made vehicles in the country, with the F-250/GM2500 a close second.

Originally Posted by jschira

Truth and facts are two completely different things.

Go to a Ram forum and they will list all the things that go bad on GMC and Ford trucks.

Go to a GMC forum and they will list everything that goes wrong with Ram and Ford trucks.

So it does not surprise me that on a Ford forum, people such as you discuss how unreliable Rams are.

Personally, I have talked to numerous hot shot drivers who only drive Rams because of the lower cost of maintenance. And the Cummins is legendary for its reliability.

So the "truth" of reliability depends upon who you ask.
This statement is entirely a figment of your imagination and supported only by your "truth" that Ram's are unreliable.

It's not just me claiming that RAM ranks low in reliability and dependability. I've already pointed out that consumer groups (JD power, Consumer Reports, True Delta, etc.) place RAM well below the other brands. Anecdotal evidence means nothing, you must look at aggregate results. I have friends with 4th gen Cummins and $2500+ repair bills to fix malfunctioning and clogged DPFs, again it's anecdotal and means nothing by itself.


As far as Ram undercutting the price of Ford or GMC, so what? Ram is the littlest of the Big 3 and has to steal market share, (which it is doing very well and is the original subject of this post). One way to grab market share is to undercut the competition on price. So Ram is cheaper than a Ford. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. There are numerous reasons that that could be true (not the least of which is that Ram simply makes less money on every truck that it sells than Ford or GM) and does not support your baseless allegation that Ram saves money by low investment in R&D.

That's exactly what I'd expect you to say, 'so what?' Undercutting is predatory pricing and of anti-competitive market practices. That's partially why manufacturing has left this country.
My argument on Ram cost cutting is not baseless, because, If it was, you wouldn't see components (integral to the BASIC safety and control of a vehicle) failing, with recalls affecting 500000+ trucks. I'm not talking about a peripheral screen glitch or body gap here. And this has been going on for over a decade.

Long term durability testing, especially in the rough road tests, would instantly expose poor engineering practices RAM has succumbed to, like using jam nuts to 'secure' a drag ling assembly, or using five pieces of sheet steel to create a track bar bracket. They need more R&D in truck durability, not leather tones.

Mexico assembly wage: 3.14/hr vs USA at $38/hr. really, my argument's baseless on cost cutting?



So you think that Ford is a better truck and worth the money? Good for you. Buy a Ford. No one is trying to talk you out of it.


But please stop making yourself feel good about buying a Ford by inventing negative fiction about the other brands of trucks.

Again, nothing I've typed is fiction. Look it up, it's free to do.




And what is so bad about wanting a new truck every couple of years? Or a nicer interior? Or more tech? Shoot, what's wrong with buying a new truck because Ford or GM or Ram has a new shade of blue, or green or red exterior paint that you can't live without?

I never said trading often was bad or wrong?

Personally, I am more of an XLT type of guy than a Laramie or a Platinum or a Denali type of guy. But why do you disparage those who want "fluff" and can afford it? Certainly Ford is doing what it can to "fluff" the SD, and people are buying it. More than one half (I think that it is closer to 60%) of all Ford trucks are now Lariats trims or better. So why are you not disparaging Ford and Ford buyers (such as yourself)?

What? You keep making these scenarios up, I never typed anything of the sort. I said that's where the market is, truck buyers care about 'fluff' for the cheapest cost.

As far as why jobs are leaving America, that is a complex issue and best left to another discussion. But I seriously doubt (although I have no facts to support this conclusion) that jobs are leaving the US because Ram stitches the word "Bighorn" into its upholstery.

You've proved my point here, you doubt RAM takes advantage of low wages, has less R&D and believe is simply 'making less money' per truck sold, no matter how many reports rank RAM at the bottom, consistently, or how many recalls are issued, or how RAM has the highest percentage of trucks made in Mexico( Reminder, average $3.14/hr wages). It seems to me that all you care about is the interior and cost & you could care less where a product is made.

Originally Posted by DSLTRK60

See the blue