Starter wont engage
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Senior User
Joined: Jun 2016
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From: For School: Big Rapids,MI
Starter wont engage
I just bought a brand new starter for my truck for my application. Im not sure why but neight the bad starter or this new one will engage my flywheel enough. It only engages roughly 3/8" and more than half the tooth of the starter gear does not even touch it.
Shimming it will not help is it is bot going in the bellhousing far enough.
I have a 400ci manual and the manual 400 starter. Any thoughts on this?
Shimming it will not help is it is bot going in the bellhousing far enough.
I have a 400ci manual and the manual 400 starter. Any thoughts on this?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
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From: San Jose, CA
Have you checked the teeth on the ring gear all the way around to make sure they are not wearing down, AND that the ring gear is not coming off of the flywheel? Never actually heard of that last bit happening, but figured I'd throw it out there anyway.
How are you determining how far the gear is engaging? Easy to see the wear marks on the face of the gears?
The trans and/or bell housing are not coming loose from each other, or the engine? I have seen that happen!
Looks like all the trucks use the same #3152 (or comparable) starter whether auto or manual, so that's not going to be an issue.
Was the old one working at one point? Or did you just buy this truck and it was not starting at that point?
Paul
How are you determining how far the gear is engaging? Easy to see the wear marks on the face of the gears?
The trans and/or bell housing are not coming loose from each other, or the engine? I have seen that happen!
Looks like all the trucks use the same #3152 (or comparable) starter whether auto or manual, so that's not going to be an issue.
Was the old one working at one point? Or did you just buy this truck and it was not starting at that point?
Paul
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Senior User
Joined: Jun 2016
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From: For School: Big Rapids,MI
I have had this truck for awhile. It used to be an auto but i swapped a manual into it. I had an OE starter in there at one point which worked well. I upgraded to a PMGR starter and it used to work okay but sounded not the best.
Everything is tight and lools good. You can see minor wear on flywheel but nothing to talk about.
Im measuring gear contact by wear on the starter gear as it was in the truck long enough to have witness marks scribed into it.
I have tried an auto starter aswell as i read they look similar but are slightly different, with no luck.
A starter swap should be very very simple. Im really quite confused on this which is frusterating me. Thank you for trying to help!
Everything is tight and lools good. You can see minor wear on flywheel but nothing to talk about.
Im measuring gear contact by wear on the starter gear as it was in the truck long enough to have witness marks scribed into it.
I have tried an auto starter aswell as i read they look similar but are slightly different, with no luck.
A starter swap should be very very simple. Im really quite confused on this which is frusterating me. Thank you for trying to help!
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,600
Likes: 1,174
From: San Jose, CA
The auto and manual starters are different on other engines, such as the Windsor family, but should be the same on a 335 series engine I thought.
You don't happen to have the original starter still lying around to compare to, do you? That would be handy right about now.
And by not sounding right, they definitely sound different than the old ones, but if it didn't sound right to you then it probably wasn't quite right from the get go. Maybe this new one is just not up to the task at all, where your previous one was a better quality, but still not a perfect fit?
Definitely make some comparisons. Get an OE style and see if the gear engagement depth is going to be the same somehow. Not sure of an easy way to test, but it probably involves jumper cables and lots of steppin' & fetchin!!
Paul
You don't happen to have the original starter still lying around to compare to, do you? That would be handy right about now.
And by not sounding right, they definitely sound different than the old ones, but if it didn't sound right to you then it probably wasn't quite right from the get go. Maybe this new one is just not up to the task at all, where your previous one was a better quality, but still not a perfect fit?
Definitely make some comparisons. Get an OE style and see if the gear engagement depth is going to be the same somehow. Not sure of an easy way to test, but it probably involves jumper cables and lots of steppin' & fetchin!!
Paul
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,398
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In reading this thread, were you able to use the same starter after the tranny swap? or was that when you switched starters also? You can bench test a starter to see the bendix arm stroke and to see the starter run by using a battery charger. Place the positive cable on the power post of the starter. Place the negative cable on the starter body. Make sure to have a good grip on the starter and plug the charger into the wall. The starter will have manageable torque when it first turns over. You should be able to get an accurate measurement of the starter stroke.
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From: For School: Big Rapids,MI
Honestly i cant remember how the OE starter reacted. I believe it was a good engagement 90% of the time and the other 10% was when one of the starter bolts came loose.
I dont think kept the OE starter either because i have no use for it.
Ive bench tested everything ive tried so far and everything works as it should so the bendiz is pushing out as far as it should.
I may go and get another OE starter and try that again. Probably use some gear marking paint or something similar to see gear mesh depth.
Not sure how to push the starter in more to engage it better. Need a longer cone on the starter or a bendix with more throw
I dont think kept the OE starter either because i have no use for it.
Ive bench tested everything ive tried so far and everything works as it should so the bendiz is pushing out as far as it should.
I may go and get another OE starter and try that again. Probably use some gear marking paint or something similar to see gear mesh depth.
Not sure how to push the starter in more to engage it better. Need a longer cone on the starter or a bendix with more throw
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From: For School: Big Rapids,MI
So i just threw in a starter i bought at the store from a 93 f150 with a 460 manual truck and it works perfectly. Not sure whats different about it but thank god for forums otherwise id be screwed for a while! Thanks for the help guys. Starter sounds perfect
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Have you checked the teeth on the ring gear all the way around to make sure they are not wearing down, AND that the ring gear is not coming off of the flywheel? Never actually heard of that last bit happening, but figured I'd throw it out there anyway.
How are you determining how far the gear is engaging? Easy to see the wear marks on the face of the gears?
The trans and/or bell housing are not coming loose from each other, or the engine? I have seen that happen!
Looks like all the trucks use the same #3152 (or comparable) starter whether auto or manual, so that's not going to be an issue.
Was the old one working at one point? Or did you just buy this truck and it was not starting at that point?
Paul
How are you determining how far the gear is engaging? Easy to see the wear marks on the face of the gears?
The trans and/or bell housing are not coming loose from each other, or the engine? I have seen that happen!
Looks like all the trucks use the same #3152 (or comparable) starter whether auto or manual, so that's not going to be an issue.
Was the old one working at one point? Or did you just buy this truck and it was not starting at that point?
Paul
um I have a 3151 one my 400
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
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From: San Jose, CA
Interesting. My book said 3152, but in looking up the images I see that the 3152 is newer, but is a replacement for the 3149 that fits '69-'77 Fords, while the 3152 is from '74 to '80 models. No engine listed on the image pages, just years in use.
I'll go back and dig into the applications and look for those three numbers to see what all they fit.
It's not unheard of for books to have mistakes (or for me to look it up wrong!) but I thought it only listed the one.
Back in a bit.
Paul
I'll go back and dig into the applications and look for those three numbers to see what all they fit.
It's not unheard of for books to have mistakes (or for me to look it up wrong!) but I thought it only listed the one.
Back in a bit.
Paul
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,600
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From: San Jose, CA
As 440 wanted to know, was it grinding? Or making some other odd noise? How long was the old one doing the same thing?
Especially after your cure, curious minds need to know.
Was your number a #3225? That's what it shows in the book.
So the old one did not sound right and that's why you pulled it out?
Good to know a 460 starter retrofits the 400's without any trouble. My book definitely lists only a single part number for 400's (maybe they didn't think you could get a manual trans with that engine?) but both manual and auto for the '93 460.
Definitely interesting stuff.
In my book, the 3151 is literally the opposite of the 3152. Flipped around almost like it's for a different country with a starter mounted on the other side, or if mounted to a normal engine, the little cover on the side would be facing down instead of up.
But hey, maybe the book is wrong. Cuz like Kyle found, if it works, it works!
Paul
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