I swung by my old buddies house last night and we got to talking about this older style of hub and he walks over to some cupboards in his garage and pulls out a box of stuff. He is well into his 70's and said he would never need it. No complete hub units but some related parts. There were a few O-rings in the box that do seem OK and not dry rotted. I'll send you one of those odd ones asap.

I'm just going through it this morning taking some pictures and some weird things I found already. Only 3 of the shims - they have the center hole but no offset hole for the 5/32" diameter pin to go through. Same with the actuators. Check it out.






None of the center screws or pins were in the box, either.

Look at these three though. I can see the stop pin on these so I'm sure you were right about that.

 

Wow that is interesting. Could the earliest versions have relied on friction alone to hold that actuator? Maybe they did and they had trouble with it coming loose, they advertise that it was designed to be able to turn it with your fingers so the force was maybe underestimated?! It does really operate smoothly and doesn't require much torque so I would think if you reefed on the screw, its hardened and mine were punched to lock them in, you'd think that they would drive that actuator without loosening, but they put a pin in so maybe not, that's all I can imagine. Interesting mystery. Any sense of the age of that packaging or was it all the same for a long time?

Boy those caps are beauties! Are they on the market?

Oh an thanks for the o-rings we'll see. Do any of your other models have a big skinny o-ring that sits in a groove just inside the hub like the ones on these caps? I would think they'd use that same design for years unless it sucked. Otherwise how do yours seal against the hub?
Maybe I should look at some new ones duh…

 

Looking back at post #5 in the picture from the shop manual - upper right corner - the actuator doesn't seem to have the hole in that picture for the pin so it must have been something they did along the way. The 1975 Parts catalog sure show it but no part number for it or the screw.

The Ford boxes are dated 1966 but everything after that point for a long time used the same boxes with the same copyright date on them. So those could have been much newer. The FoMoCo blue boxes are a bit older and no dates on the boxes but I'm fairly sure those pre-date 1966.

An odd assortment of stuff. There are two actuators without boxes in the pic above. Those two are even a little different than the others in that they don't have the same sort of 4 "squared" teeth on the outer edge. Those might be the original 1959 design and the others are a modification for 1960 and newer. Mystery there, too. Maybe I'll have to see if I can find a 1959 shop manual.

I might end up using these on my trucks just as a novelty - nobody would know they are the older type.

The 1966 and newer ones are quite a bit different. I'll pull one of those apart a little bit to show you - they have springs in them.

Back in a little while.

 

on this site: A Brief History Of Early Warn Hubs For Jeeps | ECJ5

it says this is a manual for the "5 ring" hub from 1956-58. So in the illustration on the bottom left you can see they use the same concept so I think you are on to something with the older manuals as those are ford parts. I haven't heard from Lewis but I think he mentioned that there was a pin in the one he has, he said he had different ones from several trucks he's had and mentioned 61 - 64 so he might have some variations? I had forgotten that post #5 was 61 and showed the screw with a flat head screw and no pin, that sounds like a recipe for loosening.

 

WOW!! That is a good bunch of information on the Jeep site. Thanks for posting that.

Yes, Ford was definitely packaging Warn parts in their boxes. But, after 1965 Ford didn't offer the parts or the rebuild kits as far as I can tell, only the complete hub.

I could disassemble this further, but on the left is the assembled inner and outer coupling, bearing and snap ring. The outer coupling is quite a bit taller and there are no drive pins involved.



The clutch is suspended by 4 springs so when it is disassembled to this point is acts like a bobblehead and just wiggles in place. They've made it much more difficult to disassemble the front half and the only O-ring is the one around the outside of the body where it contacts the axle housing.



The rebuild kits only include the one O-ring. And look at the difference in the size of the Allen screws.




I already had a couple of these controls so I mixed mine in with the others. Three of these controls have the M4 on a short raised area. One has M4 on a longer raised area and then 3 have the longer raised area but the surface has been milled slightly and there is no M4 visible. Mystery why that was done, but my guess would be that that part would interchange.

 

I'll drop the envelope at the post office in a few minutes. I did try these and they are flexible enough to put on and take off again. Make sure you get it square down in the channel so it's not twisted at all - I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir there....lol....I tried with the [ open channel in the rubber facing inward first - thinking it would keep dust and water out the best but it would be tough to install the control that direction. So I switched it around so the ] channel faced outwards and then it sat in the body perfectly and seemed to seal very well.

This picture was with it facing inwards and you can see it naturally wants to get bigger on the open side.



So, I switched it and it sits down in there and after turning it back and forth its like it didn't need much to stay put. I had to sort of pop it back out from the backside.

 

If you look at those nice 8 bolt caps would the o-ring from your 6 bolt cap to hub be the same as those? Those are the ones I need. You're making me want to break my piggy bank and buy two of those caps and M4 spinners from you! Those new stainless cap screws would match perfectly ha ha ha

so it looks to me like the ears on the "clutch" of this one take the place of the "drive pins", simpler but less bearing surface although the weak point to me is the inner coupling teeth which mesh with the clutch teeth, with all the heavy metal turning with all that torque and the only thing binding the hub to the axle is that skinny tooth set but people beat the snot out of them and they seem to hold up

fun to learn about this stuff, now I need that clutch and cap, oh yeah o-rings

Also, saw this place in the cj5 forum, they are way overpriced but they have square o-rings for the plastic ***** couldn't find the ID/OD the web site is clunky but they do have a ton of stuff,

https://torqueking.com/

 

They do look a little pricey.

The ring for your control **** is on its way. I am going to purchase a couple more of the O-rings for the outside of the body. There were 2 in the box from last night. They do have an ID of 2 5/8" and



If I set it on the back of the body it does look a little small.



But, they do fit correctly with just a little stretch on them.



Those should be available. Part number 87147-S91.

Click on this link and it should work.

https://www.rearcounter.com/87147S91-parts226426.html

I can't get the same sort of link for Partsvoice.com - But plug that same number in there but using your zip code and take a good look. I get two pages worth of listings



Looks like I can just zip on down to Bowen Scarff Ford in Kent where my same old buddies truck was purchased from and get as many as 9 of them there.

If I do plug in your zip code I see the closest is in Connecticut at Colonial Ford but Green Sales also shows 163 of them available, too.

 

Excellent can't wait to get it, I'll check those guys can't be much for two of them. That's funny I used to do biz with Colonial ford when I worked the parts counter at Branhaven Chysler Plymouth in the late 70s.
So no chance i can wrangle one of those caps from you? Between the one I have and the one I'm gonna get from Lewis I could maybe use a quart of compound and get one of them as shiny.

Thanks,
Ed

 

Got the cap from Lewis, thank you Lewis, and it will clean up nicely. I am going to try to find out if he remembers what year he took it off, it is identical to mine, hex head screw with a pin but is not sporting any number on the ****. Nothing, no raised panel or number.
The flat o-ring is on the **** and appears good as does the fragile but complete outer o-ring which looks thinner than yours Chad. The broken one that was on my left side was also very skinny like this one. If it was stretched on there it lost its stretch a while ago but still seemed to fill the space. I'll still get two new ones and I also got the flat one from you in the mail today. Thanks once again! Now the question is can I live with a mismatched set of ***** or should I risk this o-ring to put in the other M4 ****?

 

Well here they are. I obviously didn't polish the ***** but with a little rub of compound I can see that when I buff these up they will look OK. They both work like brand new. I took a chance and that other flat o-ring made it but it has a weak spot, not noticeable in operation.
If you can see it in the pic the outside o-ring drops right over the cap which I think is 3 1/32" OD (can't put my fingers on my micrometer), you still have to stretch it over the stop to seat it and it is 1/16" thick.
So if I can find two of those unless Chad can convince me that those other ones make a superior seal.

 

I won't try to convince you of anything - but the 2 5/8" ones are in the rebuild kits for those hubs so unless Ford made a lot of mistakes it is what they prescribed in the kits. The largest O-ring is 3/32" diameter so it is fatter profile than yours. Will they work OK? I have not tried them installed yet.

 

just wicked curious that these o-rings were both big and skinny and certainly not stretched 2 5/8 rings. The dynamics of the rubber could make that ring the exact size or as the original when stretched, just seems odd. That said I believe you have common sense to see when that ring is pulled tight into the hub if it makes good contact and a good seal. The original big skinny ones might dry and shrink and not maintain as good a seal over time. I was really kidding but because it was so different and is the "recommended" o-ring if you had an opinion based on hands on experience I would appreciate it.

 

 

See post #31 - same basic drawing, but do you see the difference? It is subtle.