studs and gaskets
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Tuned
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 268
Likes: 22
studs and gaskets
I new to this forum but figured i would ask a few questions.
First the vehicle is an 04 excursion with 245000 miles I have owned it since new. About 4 years ago the ego cooler blew I shut it down before it could do any other damage. At that time I did an egr delete , replaced the oil cooler , tuner , down page back exhaust , injectors and glow plugs. About a year later I added a powermax turbo. I did not do studs or gaskets at that time and have driven 40000+ miles .
So I have been planning on going back in and doing an Adrenaline HPOP and an Eds FICM with an Atlas 40 tune. I purchased ARP studs and a Mahle full gasket set with Black diamond head gaskets.
In looking through the forum I am wondering if I should do the studs and gaskets ? They are not leaking. If aint broke don't fix it ?
Any comments ?
First the vehicle is an 04 excursion with 245000 miles I have owned it since new. About 4 years ago the ego cooler blew I shut it down before it could do any other damage. At that time I did an egr delete , replaced the oil cooler , tuner , down page back exhaust , injectors and glow plugs. About a year later I added a powermax turbo. I did not do studs or gaskets at that time and have driven 40000+ miles .
So I have been planning on going back in and doing an Adrenaline HPOP and an Eds FICM with an Atlas 40 tune. I purchased ARP studs and a Mahle full gasket set with Black diamond head gaskets.
In looking through the forum I am wondering if I should do the studs and gaskets ? They are not leaking. If aint broke don't fix it ?
Any comments ?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 846
Likes: 34
I did mine, even though it wasn't blowing. However, some people may do otherwise. It's up to you I think, but the experts here may give better answer.
Other than that, for me, it would depend on available time, weather (do you have a garage, if not, don't do it in the winter). Are you anticipate it going bad? If all parameters are good, it may be good for a long time, so you have more leeway.
Other than that, for me, it would depend on available time, weather (do you have a garage, if not, don't do it in the winter). Are you anticipate it going bad? If all parameters are good, it may be good for a long time, so you have more leeway.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,496
Likes: 94
From: So. Jersey
You have to think what do you do with the truck? I tow alot, sometimes 11 or 1300 miles from home. With that said I still waited until I had an issue but I'm able to deal with it. Scheduling down time is always less stressful than a forced tow and tear down to do gaskets and studs.
For the gaskets, Black Onyx are the gaskets years ago that failed and should be avoided. The Black Diamonds seem to be exactly the same as Motorcraft. Ashville Engines commented on this in December. I've seen quite a few builders using them without issue. https://ashevilleengine.com/2018/12/...black-diamond/
I personally used Felpro when I recently did mine.
For the gaskets, Black Onyx are the gaskets years ago that failed and should be avoided. The Black Diamonds seem to be exactly the same as Motorcraft. Ashville Engines commented on this in December. I've seen quite a few builders using them without issue. https://ashevilleengine.com/2018/12/...black-diamond/
I personally used Felpro when I recently did mine.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 240
From: Texas
You have to think what do you do with the truck? I tow alot, sometimes 11 or 1300 miles from home. With that said I still waited until I had an issue but I'm able to deal with it. Scheduling down time is always less stressful than a forced tow and tear down to do gaskets and studs.
For the gaskets, Black Onyx are the gaskets years ago that failed and should be avoided. The Black Diamonds seem to be exactly the same as Motorcraft. Ashville Engines commented on this in December. I've seen quite a few builders using them without issue. https://ashevilleengine.com/2018/12/...black-diamond/
I personally used Felpro when I recently did mine.
For the gaskets, Black Onyx are the gaskets years ago that failed and should be avoided. The Black Diamonds seem to be exactly the same as Motorcraft. Ashville Engines commented on this in December. I've seen quite a few builders using them without issue. https://ashevilleengine.com/2018/12/...black-diamond/
I personally used Felpro when I recently did mine.
I will be using FelPros as well.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 846
Likes: 34
thanks for pooting it out. My bad.
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Tuned
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 278
Likes: 1
From: Maryland
You have to think what do you do with the truck? I tow alot, sometimes 11 or 1300 miles from home. With that said I still waited until I had an issue but I'm able to deal with it. Scheduling down time is always less stressful than a forced tow and tear down to do gaskets and studs.
For the gaskets, Black Onyx are the gaskets years ago that failed and should be avoided. The Black Diamonds seem to be exactly the same as Motorcraft. Ashville Engines commented on this in December. I've seen quite a few builders using them without issue. https://ashevilleengine.com/2018/12/...black-diamond/
I personally used Felpro when I recently did mine.
For the gaskets, Black Onyx are the gaskets years ago that failed and should be avoided. The Black Diamonds seem to be exactly the same as Motorcraft. Ashville Engines commented on this in December. I've seen quite a few builders using them without issue. https://ashevilleengine.com/2018/12/...black-diamond/
I personally used Felpro when I recently did mine.
While I was talking about heads and gaskets with UCF Machine Shop, they told me they sell the Victor Reinz/Mahle (both have the identical part number). From what I've read previously and what Scott at UCF told me, Victor Reinz is the supplier of the Ford OE gaskets, the only difference is the color of the painted surfaces. I'm using these gaskets.
Scott said they don't have an opinion of the Fel-Pro gaskets one way or another, because they don't have a broad data base of customer use for reference purposes.
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Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,833
Likes: 3,121
From: Jersey Shore
It’s not the paint, it’s Int/Ford uses a silicone compound (blue) that my understanding was developed during product development of the motor, so it’s contract limited to be sold only through the OE chain. It has a temp range to around 700°F and from my viewpoint does it’s job well. We had the same constraints with OE brake products.
The black sealants used in the aftermarket, including FelPro, is a Viton or FKM compound with a lower, but acceptable temp range. UCF should know that better, they could just ask Mahle or FelPro.
While I was originally planning on using the Motorcraft HG, I need the extra 0.010” height of the FelPro gaskets to increase my valve to piston clearance with an aftermarket cam since I’m keeping my stock valve recession numbers.
The black sealants used in the aftermarket, including FelPro, is a Viton or FKM compound with a lower, but acceptable temp range. UCF should know that better, they could just ask Mahle or FelPro.
While I was originally planning on using the Motorcraft HG, I need the extra 0.010” height of the FelPro gaskets to increase my valve to piston clearance with an aftermarket cam since I’m keeping my stock valve recession numbers.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,919
Likes: 3,637
It is a common issue - overlooking a parts "soft goods" as critical components. Hard to match 100%. The plastics business is very competitive, and technology for achieving the best physical properties is complex to say the least. If it costs less, then there is probably a "physical" reason for it. If they actually called it a painted surface, it borders on deception IMO.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,652
Likes: 79
From: Mooresville, NC
Tips --- use lint free rags during "surgery", I see many DIYrs using paper towels, cleaning agents on heads, decks --- DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME and ..............pay close attention to incidental debris during re-assembly............run the Shop Vac around the area CONSTANTLY
I'm not a big fan of "aftermarket" head gaskets --- I've been using Motorcraft first and Fel-Pro's "redesigned" version --- both are hands down the best
The Adrenaline HPOP is an overpriced CNC'd piece of aluminum --- can't go wrong sticking with the OEM.....................
As for UCF, I tried sourcing them for parts for a customer's truck last year and they were bogged down working on "tractor diesels" ---- didn't wait around............
If you rebuild the oil rails (e.g. orings) and/or do the nipple cup/*****, be very careful on final reassembly to MAINTAIN CLEANLINESS..and follow torque specs to the letter of the law.....
ARPs are Exceptional Quality, ditto Promaxx heads if you want to splurge..............................
I'm not a big fan of "aftermarket" head gaskets --- I've been using Motorcraft first and Fel-Pro's "redesigned" version --- both are hands down the best
The Adrenaline HPOP is an overpriced CNC'd piece of aluminum --- can't go wrong sticking with the OEM.....................
As for UCF, I tried sourcing them for parts for a customer's truck last year and they were bogged down working on "tractor diesels" ---- didn't wait around............
If you rebuild the oil rails (e.g. orings) and/or do the nipple cup/*****, be very careful on final reassembly to MAINTAIN CLEANLINESS..and follow torque specs to the letter of the law.....
ARPs are Exceptional Quality, ditto Promaxx heads if you want to splurge..............................
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 240
From: Texas
Tips --- use lint free rags during "surgery", I see many DIYrs using paper towels, cleaning agents on heads, decks --- DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME and ..............pay close attention to incidental debris during re-assembly.............
I'm not a big fan of "aftermarket" head gaskets --- I've been using Motorcraft first and Fel-Pro's "redesigned" version --- both are hands down the best
The Adrenaline HPOP is an overpriced CNC'd piece of aluminum --- can't go wrong sticking with the OEM.....................
As for UCF, I tried sourcing them for a customer's truck and they were bogged down working on "tractor diesels" ---- didn't wait around............
If you rebuild the oil rails (e.g. orings) and/or do the nipple cup/*****, be very careful on final reassembly to MAINTAIN CLEANLINESS.........
I'm not a big fan of "aftermarket" head gaskets --- I've been using Motorcraft first and Fel-Pro's "redesigned" version --- both are hands down the best
The Adrenaline HPOP is an overpriced CNC'd piece of aluminum --- can't go wrong sticking with the OEM.....................
As for UCF, I tried sourcing them for a customer's truck and they were bogged down working on "tractor diesels" ---- didn't wait around............
If you rebuild the oil rails (e.g. orings) and/or do the nipple cup/*****, be very careful on final reassembly to MAINTAIN CLEANLINESS.........
I just spoke with Bob at UCF two days ago and I will have my UCF o-ringed heads in less than two weeks.
At least we agree on the lint free rags...
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,919
Likes: 3,637
Well said F350_1990, EXCEPT I respectfully disagree w/ the HPOP. Lots of specifics on why the 03-04 OEM HPOP's fail (and many do). The Adrenaline pump has specific fixes. So does CNCFab's upgraded pump (which may be back in stock now or at least soon).
Edit - nice post SmackDaddy
Edit - nice post SmackDaddy
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,652
Likes: 79
From: Mooresville, NC
Sorry guys --- it just does not make economic sense on that $1300 block of CNC'd aluminum ..................same warranty as over the counter service parts from Moto and I have to shell out ~ 2x the price (NOT HAPPENING)..............no can do and I haven't / won't on my or customers vehicles.............the OEM variant produces optimal pressure and that's all that's needed, anything else is OVERKILL, questionable value added.................
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,919
Likes: 3,637
Failure mechanism in the 03-04 HPOP's - and possible "fix":
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...fix-(continued
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...and-a-fix.html
Stock capacity Adrenaline is $1000 ($400 ish over OEM), not $1300. $1300 is for quite a bit more horsepower.
https://www.dieselsite.com/2003-2004...lpumphpop.aspx
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...fix-(continued
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...and-a-fix.html
Stock capacity Adrenaline is $1000 ($400 ish over OEM), not $1300. $1300 is for quite a bit more horsepower.
https://www.dieselsite.com/2003-2004...lpumphpop.aspx