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Old Sep 8, 2018 | 12:04 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Buckshotranch
I'll have to get the McCoy book!

The Autry Museum is excellent! I took the family there in 1989 on our way to Disney. Our kids, who were 9 and 10, really enjoyed themselves. Our daughter enjoyed herself so much that when we got to the stagecoach display, complete with horses, she decided to pet the horses. My wife, son and I, had turned to go on and didn't see her try to pet the horses...but, the museum security sure did! She set off the audible motion alarms....which caused security to quickly, but politely, respond! We still tease her about that moment 30 years ago!

I also really enjoy the Buffalo Bill Museum :...I'm guessing that with the number of Winchesters you have, you not only have visited the BB museum, but have a healthy stack of Winchester letters from them as well?

The National Cowboy Museum in OK City is another excellent visit!

I'm envious of your Winchester collection!
I have about 500 levers, most are Winchesters, but I also have a Marlin model 1881, a Stevens, Savage 99 and an Evans, the ugliest rifle ever produced. Caliber is .44 Evans flat.

All my SAA's are prewar, also have several Colt New Services, also prewar.

The Winchester letters are very dry with next to no info other than the model/caliber/barrel type/length and shipping date. But unlike the Colt letters, very few have the location where they were shipped.

I got the following model 1895 made in 1900 from a pal who's a retired LEO (SMPD).

Letter reads: Musket, 30. caliber (.30 U.S. aka .30-40 Krag), to Russ, to Buffalo Express (Erie & Lackawanna RR). Returned 9/8/1908, shipped 9/10/1908.

Russ was head of Winchesters Custom Shop and what he did the first time was to install a swivel so the '95 could be mounted to something (probably in the specie car), then swiveled around.

The 2nd time around, he cut the Musket barrel down to 20."

Last September, I went to OK for the first time, spend two weeks driving 2,300 miles. Also went to a bit of TX and to Coffeyville KS where the Dalton Gang met their Waterloo.

The Pawnee Bill Museum (Pawnee OK) is another worthwhile visit, as is the Will Rogers Museum in Claremore.

Winchester club (WACA) sponsors a collector gun show in Cody every June. I've been there multiple times, am a member of the museum, so can call and get the letter info over the phone.

'Course only a few models have letters available but only for a few years. For examples, 1894's thru serial number 399,999, 1895's thru serial number 59,999.

I was the first member of the general public to join the Autry Museum (originally: Gene Autry Western Heritage, it's been renamed several times since), was first in line on opening day (a Sunday).

They were unprepared, had no membership cards, so they wrote my info on the back of one of Joanna Hale's (the curator) business cards.

Museum acquired the Colt Collection originally in Hartford, the Bianchi Collection of leather, which p!ssed off relatives of 'passed away' Hollywood actors who had donated most of it.

Pic of Big Dummy and rented F150 taken 9/14/2017 at former Ford/Mercury dealer in Matador TX .. I had previously been here in 1985.

 
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Old Sep 8, 2018 | 10:46 PM
  #17  
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500 lever rifles???....by golly that isn't a collection, that's a moo see umm!

Someday I'll have to check out the Pawnee Bill museum...missed that one. Have hit many of the old west haunts....Dodge City, Judge Roy Beans, Deadwood, Little Big Horn, Cheyenne, Lincoln County, Jessie James home, Wild Bill's birth place, Doc's grave, Buffalo Bills grave, The Kid's grave, General Crooks grave (my wife's maiden name is Crook), Santa Fe, Taos (met Jack Palance in a book store there in the late 90's. Had a short but enjoyable visit). And have visited many of the Civil War battlegrounds....Gettysburg being our favorite. Lot's of great history in this great country of ours!
 
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Old Sep 9, 2018 | 12:10 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Buckshotranch
500 lever rifles???....by golly that isn't a collection, that's a moo see umm!

Someday I'll have to check out the Pawnee Bill museum...missed that one. Have hit many of the old west haunts....Dodge City, Judge Roy Beans, Deadwood, Little Big Horn, Cheyenne, Lincoln County, Jessie James home, Wild Bill's birth place, Doc's grave, Buffalo Bills grave, The Kid's grave, General Crooks grave (my wife's maiden name is Crook), Santa Fe, Taos (met Jack Palance in a book store there in the late 90's. Had a short but enjoyable visit). And have visited many of the Civil War battlegrounds....Gettysburg being our favorite. Lot's of great history in this great country of ours!
Doc's grave in Glenwood Springs is no longer defined, because the grave marker (if there ever was one) disappeared decades ago.

Someone once told me that Doc's body had been moved to Arlington National Cemetery because he had served in the Civil War. Balderdash!

Doc never served in the war and even if he did, he would not have been buried in Arlington as he was a southerner, born in GA

Mount Moriah Cemetery in Deadwood is worth a visit. Will Bill, Calamity Jane, Seth Bullock and other notables are buried there.

When I was in SD in 1988, I hired a 'school marm' who drove the Rapid City airport bus during the summer and knew the history of the area. Why rent a car, when you can get a historian who can drive wherever you want to go?

Went to Lead and just outside of town was the foundation of an old hotel where Jane had died. Went to Sturgis, Spearfish, Belle Fourche where Dillinger once robbed a bank, Devils Tower, Hill City, drove the Needles Highway.

We could see Mt. Rushmore through a tunnel on the highway, but we didn't go there, because I wasn't that interested...there were other 'old west' venues I considered more important. For example, Fort Robinson near Chadron NE where Chief Crazy Horse was murdered.

I also hired a historian when I was at Gettysburg, drove around for hours as he pointed out what happened and where.

Jesse (alias: Mr. Howard) James' home was moved into town, I did visit where it once was. The hole in the wall where the bullet fired by Ford supposedly ended up, is a fake. Bullet went into Jesse's head and remained there. A forensic examination performed several years ago proved that...and the DNA proved that it is him.

Little Big Horn (it was called Custer Battlefield when I was there in 1991) is a eerie place, especially in the Reno Hill area. The visitor center has a basement and while talking to a docent, she said we once heard chairs being moved around, but when we looked, no one was there.

Mark Kellogg, the Chicago reporter who was on loan to the Bismarck paper is a relative of mine. Some of the wooden grave markers originally placed, then replaced by the white stone markers there today are actually for horse bones!

The Pioneer Cemetery on the outskirts of Skagway AK is where you'll find the grave of old west con man 'Soapy' Smith. His grave is actually outside the cemetery, just before you walk in...he was buried there on purpose.

I met and spoke with Jack Palance at the Los Angeles Festival of Books, held at UCLA (then, now it's at USC). I said "So you're Jack Wilson, I've heard of you." He didn't miss a beat, said "What have you heard Shane?"

I responded "That you're a low down Yankee liar!"

If you're ever in the Los Angeles area and have a bit of time, visit actor William S. Hart's home in Newhall. Hart (1860-1946) was a stage actor in NY before moving west and making westerns.

His home is a museum with paintings by Charlie Russell, Edward Borein and other notables. There's gun collection, graves of Hart's horse and mule. Another worthwhile visit is Will Rogers home in Pacific Palisades.

I'm also a WWII buff, been to London, Paris, Berlin and Dresden, and 6 times to Pearl Harbor.

First I collected guns, then began reading about the old west and soon became more interested in the history of who used them...and where.
 
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Old Sep 9, 2018 | 08:38 PM
  #19  
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Yep, who knows where Doc is buried? Last time I was at Glenwood Springs was 20 years ago. There was a gaudy stone for Doc, although it wasn't over his grave since nobody knows where his remains are. People had left empty cans of Skoal and whiskey bottles at the stone. I heard the local "hysterical" society replaced that stone with something much nicer?

Since my wife's family claim to be a descendant of General Crook I told her we were probably stirring the ghosts of the LBH! We camped one night in a Crow Nation campground just outside the park. I also tease her that General Crook decided to go fishing after his column was attacked on the way to meet up with Custer so the 7th was SOL on back-up!

I didn't make it to Skagway when we were RV'ing Alaska. Of course Soapy's history in Creede was still talked about when I lived there. I have a kind of weird story about the Creede cemetery. Friends from California had come to visit us for a week so we naturally showed them the historical sites. As we were driving through the Creede cemetery my buddy suddenly yelled "STOP, BACK UP".....after my heart dropped back in place I did as he asked. He jumped out of the truck before it even quit rolling and ran to a headstone. On the headstone was the names of a husband and wife his parents were friends with. The stone had their birth dates but not death dates. And they were Californians! When we got back to the ranch he immediately called this couple. Yep, the plot was there's. Like me, they were big JW fans and had first heard about Creede from the movie. So, like me, they had to check it out. Well, back then (and it may still be that way?) plots in the cemetery were free. So, this couple decided to "stake their claim!", complete with headstone! It is indeed a small and sometimes weird world!

Your story about JP is pretty neat! He was a true sport and gentleman when we met him.

I swore when I left California I'd never set foot there again until I could walk down any street, like here in Idaho, with my 1911 on my belt and no uniform or badge! So, I will miss out seeing those great places you mentioned!...
 
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Old Sep 11, 2018 | 11:07 AM
  #20  
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Custer was brash, but Crook in failing to send a messenger to find him and tell him about his defeat at the Rosebud, instead of going fishing, was another reason that Custer & Co. was massacred.

My sister was married to an attorney whose grandfather was General William S. Harney. Harney Peak (renamed Black Elk Peak in 2016) in the Black Hills is the tallest mountain between the Rockies and the Alps.
 
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