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Old 07-10-2018, 03:28 PM
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Truck weights

Do these numbers look correct to you? I was expecting them to be a little different.

2005 F250 CC 4X4 single occupant
CAT scale
Front: 4900
Rear: 2980
Total: 7880

You can probably count on another 400 lbs in people

Looking at pulling a TT/5er, just wanted to check my weights before committing to anything.

TT1 Coachman Apex 287BHSS UVW 5946, GVWR 7600, Hitch 792
TT2 Grand Design Imagine 2800BH UVW 6195, GVWR 7995, Hitch 604
5er Shasta Phoenix 295BH UVW 9092, GVWR 11000, PIN 1777

Thoughts?
 
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:55 PM
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Truck weights look normal to me.

I had an '07 F350 2wd CCLB that was in that range. Probably a little less than your total.
 
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:28 PM
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10% of the bumper pulled TT is payload against the truck.

At least 20% of the GVW for a 5th wheel is king pin or payload weight.
 
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:07 PM
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My 2016 F-350 SRW (loaded with people and firewood) is 9620. 2 adults and 1 child, a lot of firewood. When I add my toy hauler that is about 16K loaded I am over payload. Pin weight is near 3220 when the 5er is loaded.
 
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:21 PM
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None of the trailer hitch weights (called tongue weight for clarification) is accurate. Figure on the GVWR time 12-13% and that should be pretty close to the actual tongue weight of the trailer. For example....the Grand Design is right at 8000 lbs GVWR, so take that number and multiply time 12%.. = 960 lbs. If you use the 13%, 8000 times .13 = 1040 lbs My guess is that the third trailer, the Shasta Phoenix will too much for your truck. Do you know what the payload capacity of the truck is?
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:12 AM
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I have no interest in pushing limits. This needs to be a sustainable situation with limited breakdowns due to my stupidity.
I've seen various guesstimates on weight percentage estimates from 10,12,13 - 20,25%. My intention is to have the sales center provide me with REAL numbers before signing on the line.

The following numbers are from Ford 2005 Towing Guide
GCWR 23,000
Maximum cargo weight rating: 1,959
Conventional towing: GVWR 12,500, tongue capacity 1,250
Fifth wheel towing: GVWR 15,400

Information from my door jam:
GVWR 10,000
Front axle GVWR is 5,600
Rear axle GVWR is 6,100
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:32 AM
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Based on your 7880 CAT scale weight, you would subtract that number from the 10K GVWR....roughly 2100 lbs of payload.......B U T......remember this, those numbers were the rating for a brand new truck from approx. 13 YEARS ago. What is the condition of the truck now? Only you (or maybe your mechanic) can honestly answer that question. Tires, brakes, suspension springs and shock all deteriorate over time....what is the condition your truck in Now? See where I'm going with this.....rust, normal wear and tear, damage to components, ect. can have an impact on any or all of those components and could be the weak link in the towing capability.

As far as weight percentages go, a tow behind trailer tongue weight is likely in the 12-13% range of the trailer weight. Fifth wheel pin weights are commonly in the 20% range. Could it be a little more or a little less......Yes! Same way with the tow behind +/- a few % points....but the numbers i have given you are a very good place to start. Then, it's time for a trip to the CAT scales and get actual weights for your rig.
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:18 AM
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Agree with Xrated, the truck has to be in fine shape regardless of the camper choice. If it is, then the next question is what are your plans....travel the country for many years or park it nearby? swap trucks in a couple years?

Reason I ask is if you have your heart set on one of the campers, I'd get it. With the fiver you'll likely be a few percent over the truck's weight ratings but under the axle and tow rating so the truck will be fine. If you're planning to travel the country and a different truck is in the future then consider one with a heavier payload.

That'd be my plan. I wouldn't settle for the travel trailer if I really wanted the fiver. If this is your first camper, you may not like it or you may like it a lot and want to travel a lot. For me, that would play a bigger role in which camper to get or what to do with the truck.
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:19 AM
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Point Well Taken

Originally Posted by xrated View Post
those numbers were the rating for a brand new truck from approx. 13 YEARS ago.
xrated - Points well taken! I do understand where you are going with that. Thank you for bringing that up.
The truck is in good working order. I have no cause for concern on any of the structural or drive-line components. If this progresses, I will take necessary precautions to make sure all components are in good working order.

Originally Posted by '65Ford View Post
What are your plans....
Fair question....I feel we are pretty modest in our expectations. I'm more concerned with 'experiences' than 'things'. Wife and three kids.
In the short term we want to be able to take mid length (7-10 day) vacation trips to distant (1,000 + miles) locations a couple times a year with local (200 mile) weekend trips throughout the year.
One of the kids is 16 but I think she will be around for a couple more years. Even then I think she will want to tag along. The others are 12 and 6, so they will be here a while.
In the interim, I think a new truck could be in consideration in 3-5 years but only as necessary. If we have a trailer at that time, we will get what is necessary to be comfortable. In the mean time, if it is able to do its job without concern, then I will probably drive the wheels off of it.
Long term goal is to kick the kids out of the house and do more traveling. We will downsize as appropriate.

I think the advantages of pulling a 5er out weigh the TT by a large margin. I really want to try and find a 5er that will work for us. But NOTHING out weighs safety!
I'm just trying to go into this with open eyes and understand what my truck is realistically able to do.
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:41 AM
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I wouldn't hesitate to tow any of those trailers with your truck, it will do a fine job as long as it is in good working order and setup properly.
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by flysniper View Post
Do these numbers look correct to you? I was expecting them to be a little different.

2005 F250 CC 4X4 single occupant
CAT scale
Front: 4900
Rear: 2980
Total: 7880

You can probably count on another 400 lbs in people

Looking at pulling a TT/5er, just wanted to check my weights before committing to anything.

TT1 Coachman Apex 287BHSS UVW 5946, GVWR 7600, Hitch 792
TT2 Grand Design Imagine 2800BH UVW 6195, GVWR 7995, Hitch 604
5er Shasta Phoenix 295BH UVW 9092, GVWR 11000, PIN 1777

Thoughts?
Looks fine for your truck for the TTís. The 5er is at the top end most likely over the payload, but under the axel rating.

Iíd run any of them but Iíve been towing since I was 12 on the farm and drive according to the conditions and the load Iím towing.

If you go with the 5er just know that at the max GVWR your pin will put you over your payload rating by around 400 lbs or more depending on hitch and cargo in the truck. The pin listed is probably based on UVW.

At the end of the day you will need to evaluate how your truck and itís condition fits into your current situation and goals.
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:01 PM
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Based on your scaled weight and the additional 400 lbs of people, it would seem like your remaining payload capacity is right around 1700 lbs. If you want to stay 100% legal (not exceed the trucks 10000# GVWR), then I'd say you should focus your search on travel trailers. It will be hard to find a fifth-wheel & hitch whose combined weight (applied to the truck axles) is less than 1700 lbs.

Edit to add: I applaud your due diligence before purchasing the trailer. Lots of folks don't really think too much about it beforehand. Travel trailers are great in the sense that you can use the truck bed for bikes/wood/etc.
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:03 PM
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My rules:
F-250 is great for most travel trailers. Not so much for a 5th wheel trailer unless it is an ultralight. These trucks run out of cargo capacity long before other capacities.
F-350 SRW is great for any travel trailer and most 5th wheel trailers.
F-350/F-450 DRW are great for any travel trailer or 5th wheel trailer.
Try to keep the weights of the trailer below 80% of the capacity of the truck. This should result in fewer white knuckle experiences and less stress on the truck.

The tongue/pin weights are all dry weights from the manufacturer as it came off the line. It may not include the weight of batteries or propane tanks. It certainly won't include the weight of a full tank of water or the weight of the hitch. Because of this, most of us assume the worst and go off of the GVWR of the trailer. The dry tongue weight should be considered the least it will ever be. 15% of GVWR is (hopefully) the most the tongue weight will ever be on a travel trailer and 20% on a 5th wheel.

Ratings for gas vs diesel are different. I didn't see which type of engine you have. If you're going to be towing on the flats then the gas engine is fine with a higher rear gear ratio. In the mountains? Diesel does better.
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:30 PM
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I disagree with a couple of the posters here, on the 5ver trailer being OK. Empty weight of that trailer will put right at 1800 lbs on the truck, and not one person/camper that I know tows empty. Add the weight of the 5ver hitch in the bed and now you are at 2000 lbs. What about the rest of the stuff that has to come along for the ride.....wife, three kids, anything and everything that goes on/in the truck.....grill, firewood, tools, air compressor, bicycles, etc. It's pretty easy to imagine having that truck/trailer combo be 600-700 lbs over payload....Personally, I wouldn't do it, but I also believe in not exceeding ANY of the weight capacities.......payload, axles, GCVWR, tires...none of them.
 
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:51 PM
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Being 600-700 lbs over the payload won't hurt a thing, and you will still be under the axle weight ratings which is what the DOT checks if they do weigh you, but 99% of the time they don't mess with people towing campers for recreational use.
 
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