Mixing toy haulers into the discussion of a 5th wheel is a distraction. They aren't quite in the same class. I wouldn't tell a plain bumper pull travel trailer owner what their trailer's tongue weight is likely to be based on my bumper pull toy hauler's typical weights.

There is a general consensus that the pin weight of a typical 5th wheel trailer (not toy hauler) will be 20% of the trailer's GVWR. Is a simple number that has proven to be a good rule of thumb for estimating.

Without typing on xrated's keyboard, I think what he and I are trying to get across is that for people that are new to towing, using the common estimating methods are a very good way to keep you out of trouble and well within the safety margin of the tow vehicle. We're trying to keep people safe. In my opinion, throwing out opinions (I'm not pointing at anyone in particular with this) that some capacity ratings are more important than others or that some can be completely ignored is disingenuous at the very least and at worst an invitation to put someone - that lacks a complete understanding of all the issues - into a dangerous situation.

 

I think quite the opposite Jim. Whether standard 5th or TH 5th, there are variations in physics that result in different final pin weights. I think using common averages (blanket statements) will stop many from searching further and finding the exception to the rule like I did. If I were to listen to the arm chair engineers on the RV forums I would have never found the perfect RV for my needs that matched my desired tow vehicle. As I said above, 20% may be more common but research will prevail (if you let it) in finding you a lighter pin non TH 5th that works within your numbers. Pontification in the guise of "keeping people safe" makes the preacher feel important but rarely covers all the info needed to complete the picture. As to some ratings being more important than others, that is 100% true. Many "ratings" are marketing based by the manufacturer like the 250 vs. SRW 350 thing and have zero to do with physics. So, saying those questioning that are disingenuous is in itself disingenuous. It's just more pieces to the puzzle that will be helpful to those new and learning.

 

I tow a 10,000lb bumper pull with about 1,100lb tongue weight, and 36' long, from hitch to bumper. On the round trip from Texas to Kentucky, I could tell that a lesser truck would have had issues towing it, when there was a crosswind, or when passing other traffic. Since I also own a gooseneck horse trailer (which is even heavier by 2,000 lbs), I would rather have a heavier fifth wheel, than a lighter bumper pull - simply due to the added stability.

From my research here, and other places, when I get serious about shopping for a replacement for my bumper pull, I will NOT listen to any recommendations made by a salesman, and I WILL find what does not exceed my tire or axle ratings. I really could not care less about what the weight police online have to say about it - regardless about how scary they try to come across. I will look at manufacturer specs on the rigs that I would be interested in, and then maybe even run one to the scales down the street before agreeing to purchase.

(Not very concerned about the tire police either. I will buy a quality tire immediately after purchase, and make sure that it has the proper weight capacity and SPEED rating for the highways I use.)

 

Sounds like a fair plan to me Doug based in common sense.

 

Edit to add: I really do appreciate the feedback from everyone. Its been great to read all of the different view points. I only wished I had done this 2 years ago. I probably would have gone a different route with the truck. alas: it is what it is.

I have no interest in being an irresponsible owner/operator. Negligence is nothing to mess with.
I've run the numbers 10 ways to Sunday. And at the end of the day, at 100% trailer capacity (10,195) and 20% pin weight (2,039), I'm 520 pounds over truck GVWR (10,519) and well within the axle limits (5,370) and that includes 400 lbs for family and 200 pound hitch.
At 0% trailer capacity (8,294), 20% pin (1,659), i'm 140 over truck GVWR (10,139). axle (4,990)
My wants and my needs are definite in conflict here.

I guess I just need to man up and make a decision.

Are there 'things' about pulling a TT vs. a 5er that I'm over looking?

TT
PRO:
well with-in tow vehicle specs
lower price point
Full use of bed of truck

CONS:
REALLY FREAKING LONG
harder to park/back-up at camping spots
resale value, quality control

Fifth Wheel
PRO:
not as long
more stable while towing
easier to maneuver
seems to be a higher quality product

CON:
HEAVY
resale value. limited market

 

I think you have most of it. A fiver is also much, much easier to hitch and unhitch. It's easily a one person job. TT's need two people who communicate well or one person and a good gizmo like a mirror or camera.

Fivers themselves are not necessarily heavier than TT's though their hitch weight is generally a greater percentage of their overall weight. To me that's a plus along with its weight being located in the optimum place.

IMO, you'll be fine pulling any of the campers you listed so long as you're aware of the strengths and weaknesses of each....and I think they've been hashed to smithereens . If I were you, I'd get which ever one of the three campers you like better ...even if it's only for color scheme or the stickers on the outside.

 

Considering that there are fifth wheels designed to be pulled by half ton trucks (whether or not it is a good idea), I would think you could find something well within the limits with which you are comfortable. The added stability while towing is the biggest reason I will upgrade to a fifth wheel when I retire my bumper pull. The added space of a fifth wheel will be a nice touch, but my bumper pull is already pretty roomy.

 

One consideration for me was that a travel trailer has fewer concerns when going over less than ideal roads. I camp/boondock in the Rocky Mountains quite a bit. Some of the access roads are far from level and have plenty of rises and dips for water runoff management. A fifth wheel trailer _may_ have problems in these conditions. An ideal source for this type of question would be forum member scraprat. Check out his awesome thread here: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...rest-trip.html

 

I've had a couple of both. Started with a 32' TT. Then a 36' TT. Then a 40' 5th. Now a 44' 5th. When the weight distribution is set up right, I was very happy with the TT towing experience. As mentioned, the hook up and unhooking process is more involved though. One thing to consider with a TT is the height of the trailer. Most modern 5vers are much taller so keeping an eye out of low overpasses is more crucial. Branches in campgrounds can find you more easily as well. I tend to go long distances and the having the weight of the hitch right over the rear axle certainly provides a LOT of stability. On your pro and con list you mention better quality control on a 5ver. This isn't the case. When comparing similar levels (price points) of RV, one will not be better built than the other. The illusion of better quality comes from the fact that there are more intro level TT's out there and more high end 5ver lines. But dollar for dollar, one is not built any better than the other. (And neither are well built at all to be honest.) I do understand the rest of your pro and con list and those are priorities you will have to set for yourself. Loss of the truck bed is one reason I went with a TH. It doesn't always have toys in the garage but there is always something I want to take with me that can easily be loaded and strapped down back there. When not traveling the space converts to living space. I realize that's not what your in the market for, just mentioning it's a partial compromise in that regard. Good luck with your decision. One or the other will speak to you and will feel right.

If you go with the TT, I would highly recommend an Equalizer E4 hitch system. It's super simple to set up and just as easy to hook up and unhook each time. I've run it and the Reese Straight Line. They function equally but the E4 is so much easier to set up and run. The HA and PP are awesome hitches but I've never felt a hitch of that caliber was needed on either of my setups. If you go 5ver, the B&W is Made in the USA and very highly spoken of by many members here and on all the RV forums. That would be my choice if you go in the 5th wheel direction.

 

Do you know approximately where in the thread TT's were compared to fivers on poor roads? The thread has well over 400 posts and I stopped reading around #120. Cool trip and interesting tidbits on solar panels.

 

@'65Ford That's about where I"m at. I really like the overall quality of the 5er that we are looking at compared to the TT that we are comparing against. They just don't stack up.

E02SeaBee - This particular 5er model is designed for 1/2 ton trucks. Sounds like the lighter engine in the 1/2 tons gives them a slight edge in cargo capacity over my F250 diesel (6.0) which I have a hard time resolving in my head. I know its all in the numbers but dang....

@Karl4Cat - Thank you for your input in this conversation. There are several posts that I have gone back over multiple times. It's not really fair because I do feel like we are comparing apples to oranges here. The 5er is one that I would consider mid range and the TT that we have been looking at are INTRO models because I was pushing hard against anything longer than 30'. I have this strange aversion to pulling something 30' long. To be honest it scares me a bit.

 

Just shy of 41' here, it is not that bad and easy enough to back up and place in campgrounds. I usually position the wife with cell phone to watch for obstructions and otherwise be quiet. I can park it just as fast as a small one.

 

I understand the trepidation. When I got my 32' I thought it was YUUUUGE. After a year I was used to it and went to 36'. 40' wasn't much of a jump from there 2 years later and now after 3+ seasons with 44', it's old hat. The point of the story is, they all feel big from the get go but you will likely get comfortable quickly and wonder what you were worried about. I know what it's like to have analysis paralysis but once you get past it, buy the rig you like better, and go on your first trip, this thread will be a distant memory being replaced my amazing RV tripe memories...

 

Watching the bedrails for contact is something to be careful of on seasonal roads, but I find the bigger limitation to be breakover and departure angles, particularly the dump hose connection.

 

We began with a 36ft TT and now have a 41ft 5th wheel. I like the 5er better for towing. Ride smother and not as bouncy even with a good WD hitch. With the pivot point on the TT being well behind the wheels I found the 5th wheel was easier to control in backup situations.