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Old Jun 8, 2018 | 12:02 AM
  #46  
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Well Ive been doing something that is not good for me which is thinking. Since the other guy quit Tuesday it means me being the only guy at the shop for now means I am making more money than I was.

So I started looking around to see what I could do to liven up a 94-96 302 without getting crazy and making it not work with the stock drive train.

I looked at Crane to see if they happened to have any direct replacement cams for these engines that doesn't require changing everything out to make it work like with the original engine idea. They have a 2020 grind roller cam part number 444212, power range 1,000 to 5,000 rpm, 2,200 to 2,600 cruise. It also has a foot note for the rockers part number 44774-16, that states "Crane Classic extruded, 1.6 ratio, non-adjustable, for pedestal mount cylinder heads, no machining required". I will need to look more into this because first off I do not know if those rockers would even fit under a factory steel valve cover. It also has me curious if one can reuse the stock rockers. I mean if you are able to run their 1.6 non adjustable rockers for pedestal mount heads with no machining required then why couldn't you run the oem stock rockers.

Anyways what prompted this thinking was I been doing some more reading as I never was informed by powertrain products on what cam is in the long block other than "stock" which is vague in my eyes. But while looking around Ive seen mixed reviews on the explorer cam, some say they are great, some say that they lack power past 3,500 rpm. I even saw some saying that the standard HO found in mustangs is better than the explorer cam power wise.

This cam how ever has the following specs.

208*/216* Duration @ 0.050" / 112* Lobe separation / 107* Intake center line / 0.530" lift at valves

What is really getting me interested in this is the 107* intake center line which from my reading makes for a snappier responsive throttle. The F4TE-6250-BA cam or explorer cam has the following specs from what I was able to find out.

186*/196* Duration @ 0.050"/ 116* Lobe separation / 118* Intake center line / 0.422"/0.448" Lift at valves

Which really has me concerned on how responsive this cam will be with a 118* intake center line. So for me now would be the time to do the upgrade before the engine is buttoned up and installed as I wouldn't want to be upset and have to pull the motor to make cam changes after the fact.

Still need to dig more on this Crane camshaft as I don't know if the rocker they sell is machined differently to account for the 0.530" lift or what but it clearly states its for non adjustable pedestal mount. Also need to find out if they are roller tipped and if they will fit under stock steel valve covers mainly the older covers.
 
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Old Aug 7, 2018 | 07:39 PM
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Well been a while since I posted an update. Think its time to give an update. I been saving up to the point that I took advantage of Summits 50th anniversary sale going on. I ended up with nearly $300 worth of parts after taxes for just at $270 after taxes.

So far I have the following.

ARP Header bolt kit
ARP Hardened Oil Pump Drive shaft
Comp Cams Engine finishing kit (for the 2 piece fuel pump eccentric)
Edelbrock divided heat insulator gasket (for carburetor)
Fel Pro intake gasket set
Fel Pro Header gasket set
Fel Pro one piece oil pan gasket
Fel pro rubber coated shim valve cover gasket
Fel pro timing cover gasket set
Holley Ford Transmission kick down extension
Melling Oil Pump pick up screen
Summit 1" plastic 4 hole carb spacer
Summit ford kick down spring perch kit.

All that I lack from summit as of now is the 600CFM summit carb, the Headman Headers shorty street header, Edelbrock performer intake manifold, Crane 1.7:1 roller pedestal rockers. Aside from that need to pick up locally the Cardone 842831 new dist for this engine which is listed as with a steel gear for use with my '96 Explorer long block I still need to order. Also need the jegs off road y pipe, the Waldron oem cat back exhaust system and I am really setting my sights on the Magnaflow round 3 chamber muffler which will require a 2 1/4" to 2" reducer to hook up to the stock tail pipe. Going to hit up Greene Sales Co to pick up the ford timing cover for $250 and then all that's left if I am remembering everything is just the long block from power train products.
 
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Old Aug 7, 2018 | 08:00 PM
  #48  
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I bought that off-road Y-Pipe from Jegs, and it didn't fit very well for me. Now...the issue may have been the BBK 3510 shorty headers...I dunno, but they certainly wouldn't work together, not by a long shot. The BBK 3510 headers were supposed to be the correct dimensions to replace factory manifolds, and the Jegs Y-Pipe was supposed to be correct dimensions as well, but matched together they were off by a mile. Just FYI is all. The issue was probably the headers. I think the ball flanges on the headers are meant for 2.5" pipe, and the Jeg's pipes are 2".

The ARP header bolts are a good idea as well. I had to buy a set of those myself (1", I think). The 3/4" bolts that came with the BBK headers were too short. The gaskets that came with them were garbage as well. They leaked immediately, and were a pain to remove.

I did the ARP oil pump shaft as well. Good idea I think. The guy that built my engine recommended it.

That's a good chunk of parts. Well done. I did the plastic 1" 4-hole spacer as well between my Holley and Edelbrock Performer. It's working flawlessly so far.
 
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Old Aug 7, 2018 | 08:19 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Rembrant
I bought that off-road Y-Pipe from Jegs, and it didn't fit very well for me. Now...the issue may have been the BBK 3510 shorty headers...I dunno, but they certainly wouldn't work together, not by a long shot. The BBK 3510 headers were supposed to be the correct dimensions to replace factory manifolds, and the Jegs Y-Pipe was supposed to be correct dimensions as well, but matched together they were off by a mile. Just FYI is all. The issue was probably the headers. I think the ball flanges on the headers are meant for 2.5" pipe, and the Jeg's pipes are 2".

The ARP header bolts are a good idea as well. I had to buy a set of those myself (1", I think). The 3/4" bolts that came with the BBK headers were too short. The gaskets that came with them were garbage as well. They leaked immediately, and were a pain to remove.

I did the ARP oil pump shaft as well. Good idea I think. The guy that built my engine recommended it.

That's a good chunk of parts. Well done. I did the plastic 1" 4-hole spacer as well between my Holley and Edelbrock Performer. It's working flawlessly so far.
I wonder. The Headman Headers is listed as fitting 86 - 96 trucks with a 302 and fit the factory exhaust. I looked up in the parts and illustration guide and 80 - 86 has the same part number for the Y pipe and manifolds. So this header as far as I know should fit my Y pipe. The Y pipe how ever I am wary about. If it doesn't work I will return it if my stock Y pipe will work. I just wanted to run new so I wouldn't have to cobble together a spacer to take place of the converter I cut out years ago. Figured the off road Y pipe would work great for me to connect to the Waldron stock cat back exhaust system.

Yep I got the header bolts as from work I noticed the 12 point bolts are easier to get a wrench on and would be better just incase the tubes are too close. Only iffy part will be my dipstick as it bolts to my exhaust manifold through one of the bolts that holds the manifold on. I am hoping I can use something like all thread with a spacer and just put a nut on it to tighten everything up at once.

Gaskets I am going felpro for most of the more vital areas. Decided on the metal shim that is rubber coated for the valve cover gaskets as well as for the oil pan gasket to hopefully eliminate oil leaks over the years. Also going with the header gaskets as they are the fiber rubber coated metal gaskets and don't blow out easily.

That's good to hear I went with the Summit 1" plastic spacer with 4 holes to fit the Summit 600cfm vac secondary carb directly. Will be using a single 4 hole gasket to seal the carb to the 1" plastic spacer. Will be using an Edelbrock heat insulator spacer that is like 0.35" thick to go between the intake manifold and the 1" plastic spacer since it is a divided to fit the dual plane manifold with just a single divider between left and right. This should put the carb at nearly if not the exact same height as it was originally with the ERG valve and that thick heat insulator gasket between the EGR spacer and the carb.

Only thing I am concerned about carb wise is its a dual inlet and I want to keep my coil mounted in the stock location on the passenger side intake manifold. I might have found a Summit oil filter/dual inlet line that will work with this carb, it looks shorter and I could put a 90* barb fitting on to clear the coil hopefully.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...00vs/overview/

The carb above is the one I will be using, better than the edelbrock as it is an actual vac secondary and doesn't require adapters to work with a ford kick down other than just a simply extension for the kick down to reach. The metal fuel line looks like it will be in the back end of the coil.

This is the fuel line I am looking at using.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3120-8

Don't care for the fuel pressure gauge but it has a double sized fuel filter in there with a spring bypass to bypass the filter when its clogged. It looks more compact but hard to tell. Think I might be able to run a 90* barb fitting to connect my hose to from my metal hard line from the fuel pump.

The other thing I am concerned about is on the headers, I am getting the unpainted ones so I can weld up a 1/2" bolt I think I will use to the number 1 tube to bolt on a home made heat shield to connect the flex emission hose from the stock air filter to. Once I weld that up I am sending it out to this ceramic coating place I found that can do it in a cast iron or cast stainless steel color inside twice and outside once for between $200 and $250 I think she quoted me depending on size of the headers. I just don't know if it will be risky to run the engine and heat cycle the headers in for the first start up of the engine. Considering its a roller engine I don't have to idle it up to 1,500 - 2,500 rpm for break in I can just start up and let idle while I adjust timing and fuel mixture throughout the heat cycling. But still afraid as I don't want to mess the coating up since its going to be around $490ish for the headers by time I am done.

I also need to check my notes again and see if I need the thermactor plugs for the GT40 heads or not. I know I needed them for the E7 heads I originally was looking at till I started making more money at work and said screw it Im getting the GT40 head explorer long block lol.

I also need to get my oil pan, valve covers and maybe intake manifold powder coated I found a company that sells powder coating of ford corporate blue that matches paint perfectly. Then I will paint the rest.

I just need to sit down and go through what I need to make sure I get everything ordered. Will order the engine last that way I don't lose out on the 4 year warranty while I am waiting on parts.
 
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Old Aug 7, 2018 | 11:19 PM
  #50  
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Looking at timing sets right now. Wonder why they keep trying to tell me that up to '84 a single piece fuel pump eccentric was used. What? My '78 mercury with the original nylon toothed timing set when I did it at 175k miles had a two piece fuel pump eccentric. Im pretty sure it was a two piece from then on up to 84.

Starting to make me worry a bit. Guess I will just find a decent true double roller that is listed for use with a two piece fuel pump eccentric and then just go from there.
 
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Old Aug 8, 2018 | 03:43 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Rusty_S
Yep I got the header bolts as from work I noticed the 12 point bolts are easier to get a wrench on and would be better just incase the tubes are too close. Only iffy part will be my dipstick as it bolts to my exhaust manifold through one of the bolts that holds the manifold on. I am hoping I can use something like all thread with a spacer and just put a nut on it to tighten everything up at once.

Gaskets I am going felpro for most of the more vital areas. Decided on the metal shim that is rubber coated for the valve cover gaskets as well as for the oil pan gasket to hopefully eliminate oil leaks over the years. Also going with the header gaskets as they are the fiber rubber coated metal gaskets and don't blow out easily.

I also need to check my notes again and see if I need the thermactor plugs for the GT40 heads or not. I know I needed them for the E7 heads I originally was looking at till I started making more money at work and said screw it Im getting the GT40 head explorer long block lol.
Depends on what GT40 heads you get as to whether or not the Thermactor plugs are required. I had purchased a set in advance (I think $8 at Jegs) but ended up not needing them. The Explorer GT40 heads do not have thermactor ports, but the Cobra GT40 heads do.

You can just use some threaded rod and nuts to space the dipstick tube out. I took the video below right after I installed my engine, and you can see the rod/nuts. I used 3/8" stainless rod and nuts. Had to rotate the dipstick tube slightly to fit it around the header tubes, but it worked fine in the end. It points up a little more than it used to.

I re-used the stock steel fuel line, but cut it off just beside the distributor, then ran fuel hose and filter between there and the carburetor. I went with a Holley 4160 w/ vac secondaries, and it had only a single fuel inlet. You can see that in the vid as well.

I also went with the same Fel-Pro gaskets for the oil pan and valve covers. The 1pc leak-proof plus ones or whatever they're called. They're light blue in color, with the metal washers impregnated in the rubber. They're expensive, but they seem to be working fine so far. I ended up using the Remflex 3028 header gaskets. Since the ones that came with my BBK headers failed almost instantly, I checked around a bit and both Summit and my engine shop strongly recommended the Remflex gaskets. They're made to fit the GT40 heads, and they come with a torque setting (I think it was 20 ft/lbs) where you just tighten the header bolts to and leave 'em alone.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...view/make/ford

 
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Old Aug 8, 2018 | 03:50 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Rusty_S
Looking at timing sets right now. Wonder why they keep trying to tell me that up to '84 a single piece fuel pump eccentric was used. What? My '78 mercury with the original nylon toothed timing set when I did it at 175k miles had a two piece fuel pump eccentric. Im pretty sure it was a two piece from then on up to 84.
Here's a pic of what was in my 1984 302 from the factory. Reused the eccentric with the Comp Cams kit.



 
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Old Aug 8, 2018 | 01:02 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Rembrant
Here's a pic of what was in my 1984 302 from the factory. Reused the eccentric with the Comp Cams kit.

Yep that's what was in my '78 Mercury behind the cover on my 351. I don't get it why Summit is listing 84 and up as being for the two piece fuel pump eccentric and only 1 piece for 84 and back.
 
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Old Aug 8, 2018 | 01:15 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Rembrant
Depends on what GT40 heads you get as to whether or not the Thermactor plugs are required. I had purchased a set in advance (I think $8 at Jegs) but ended up not needing them. The Explorer GT40 heads do not have thermactor ports, but the Cobra GT40 heads do.

You can just use some threaded rod and nuts to space the dipstick tube out. I took the video below right after I installed my engine, and you can see the rod/nuts. I used 3/8" stainless rod and nuts. Had to rotate the dipstick tube slightly to fit it around the header tubes, but it worked fine in the end. It points up a little more than it used to.

I re-used the stock steel fuel line, but cut it off just beside the distributor, then ran fuel hose and filter between there and the carburetor. I went with a Holley 4160 w/ vac secondaries, and it had only a single fuel inlet. You can see that in the vid as well.

I also went with the same Fel-Pro gaskets for the oil pan and valve covers. The 1pc leak-proof plus ones or whatever they're called. They're light blue in color, with the metal washers impregnated in the rubber. They're expensive, but they seem to be working fine so far. I ended up using the Remflex 3028 header gaskets. Since the ones that came with my BBK headers failed almost instantly, I checked around a bit and both Summit and my engine shop strongly recommended the Remflex gaskets. They're made to fit the GT40 heads, and they come with a torque setting (I think it was 20 ft/lbs) where you just tighten the header bolts to and leave 'em alone.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...view/make/ford

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prFoV6ndMro
That's what I was wondering. This is a long block listed for an 96 Explorer so they should be explorer GT40 heads. That would save me nearly $20 then since I wouldn't have to buy two thermactor plugs.

The hardline I was going to keep my old one but use it as a pattern to bend a new line but cut it back behind the dist and run a short hose from dist to the fuel line at the carb. I have a York compressor since my truck is dealer air so I have to get the bends pretty close to what I have now.

Air pump I am going to do like you did, I got a spare bracket off a truck from work that we did the 5.0 coyote swap on I am going to hack off the air pump mount and have it powder coated black to use in place of my original. That way if for some reason a state inspector says I need it I still have the original bracket to at least bolt it back on.
 
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Old Aug 9, 2018 | 11:00 PM
  #55  
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Well I got two big boxes today from Summit. Everything looks good. Found it funny the Felpro one piece oil pan gasket is listed as fitting '84 - '01 302s. Yea cause god knows Ford changed the block shape after '84.

Aside from that I am waiting on my check for last week once I get it I am seriously tempted to buy the last of the stuff I need from summit which is the 3" carb stud kit, the summit carb, the summit fuel log, the edelbrock intake, the headman headers. I also am still on the fence on the Crane 1.7 pedestal rockers. I want to run them but keep getting mixed feed back on if they will fit under the stock early '80s steel valve cover. Some say yes, some say no, some say yes only if you remove the baffle. I am not going to remove the baffle as I don't want a pvc oil problem. I do need to figure out why I have oil film at the filler cap in the valve cover.
 
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Old Aug 10, 2018 | 03:20 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Rusty_S
Aside from that I am waiting on my check for last week once I get it I am seriously tempted to buy the last of the stuff I need from summit which is the 3" carb stud kit...
Doesn't the carb spacer come with longer studs? I know mine did. I did still have to make one extra long stud to mount a throttle return spring bracket.
 
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Old Aug 10, 2018 | 05:37 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Rusty_S
Looking at timing sets right now. Wonder why they keep trying to tell me that up to '84 a single piece fuel pump eccentric was used. What? My '78 mercury with the original nylon toothed timing set when I did it at 175k miles had a two piece fuel pump eccentric. Im pretty sure it was a two piece from then on up to 84.

Starting to make me worry a bit. Guess I will just find a decent true double roller that is listed for use with a two piece fuel pump eccentric and then just go from there.

The difference between the single and 2 piece fuel eccentric is the length of the cam locating pin and the relife on the cam gear. Many cam kits come with both the long (one piece eccentric) and short (two piece eccentric) pin.

On the two piece eccentric there is a tab that locates the eccentric in the cam/gear pin hole. On the one piece eccentric the cam pin locates the eccentric. Timing chain sets (specifically the cam gear) made for the two piece eccentric can use the single piece eccentric. Timing chains sets (again cam gear) made for the single piece eccentric can not use the two piece eccentric the pad the eccentric sits on is larger and would foul the outer ring of the eccentric. This can be resolved with a spacer under the inner eccentric at one time they were available after market not sure they still are. Personally I prefer the single piece eccentric as it a more stout item. One of the cooler things I've seen lately is the bearing fuel pump eccentric I think it fits all the OHV Ford engines. Last pic.


See below pics of single piece eccentric and cam gear and two piece eccentric and cam gear.

Single piece





Two Piece


Bearing Fuel Pump Eccentric



 
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Old Aug 10, 2018 | 05:51 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by matthewq4b
One of the cooler things I've seen lately is the bearing fuel pump eccentric I think it fits all the OHV Ford engines. Last pic.
Oh...that thing is cool. Do you need to run a specific cam just for this?



 
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Old Aug 10, 2018 | 07:17 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Rembrant
Oh...that thing is cool. Do you need to run a specific cam just for this?
Supposedly it will bolt on to any cam gear that would take a factory style fuel pump eccentric. This is one of those things that is long overdue in my opinion.
 
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Old Aug 10, 2018 | 12:26 PM
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Interesting. I know I might have to pull the pin out of my cam as its the ford explorer cam. I got the two piece eccentric I just found it odd that it says its for 84 and up 302s but yet ford was using the two piece in the late 70s.

On the carb spacer, I didn't open it cause the box wasn't one that could be closed back up again. But the edelbrock heat insulator gasket did come with some studs but they are too short to fit with a 1" spacer. The studs if the 1" spacer came with it I think will be too short when using the insulator that is just over 1/4" thick. Same thickness as the one used between the EGR plate and the old 2150 carbs.
 
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