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New Engine - Hands on Approach

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Old 05-26-2018, 08:35 PM
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New Engine - Hands on Approach

Well my truck is still down going on 3 months now I think it is.

Needless to say I placed my first order from Summit for parts. I am at a position where I will be ordering $100 - $150 worth of parts every week to make use of the free shipping. While this is going on I hope by time all the parts are on hand I will have enough of a buffer to move the money over from savings to buy the long block 302.

As some know I was looking at getting a 96ish Explorer 302 with the GT40 heads and the explorer roller cam. Thing is to do this and get the engine right I would be looking right at $5,000 for engine and parts. I have since decided that I don't need to make a race truck I just want a torque building 302 that would work for daily driving and be good for towing when the need arises.

So I decided to get from PTP their 80-86 302 long block, doesn't state what cylinder heads it is but it does say something about the crank for an '80 and using a 3/8" or 3/4" reach plug. I don't know about that as I plan on running plugs that a '82 302 calls for. None the less it is listed for a truck so I can spend an extra $350 and get an extra year on the warranty to make it 5 years. Also gives some extra bells and whistles like $100 labor rate they will pay for warranty repairs, up to $50 a day for a rental car.

I will have to be careful cause I have decided to not trust the cam that comes with this long block. Being a flat tappet I am afraid it can be some cheap cam that might go flat easily. I decided since the engine is apart I will upgrade the internals some. Will no doubt void warranty but I will keep original parts just in case.

So on to the good stuff.

Just now I ordered a Crane Cams Degree Wheel since I will be running a Crane Camshaft in the truck. I also ordered a FelPro Exhaust Header Gasket as I will be running a set of 89470 Headman Street Headers. I also got a FelPro one piece metal/rubber oil pan gasket and the FelPro Perma-Dry Plus metal/rubber valve cover gasket set. That makes a decent notch in my list.

But what I still need to buy is as follows.

1) ARP Header Bolt Kit
2) ARP Harden Oil Pump Driveshaft (lots have told me to upgrade as the oem drive shafts are weak)
3) Crane Valve Spring and Retainer Kit (Recommended for Crane Cam I selected)
4) Crane Chromemoly Pushrod Set (Recommended for Crane Cam I selected)
5) Crane Rocker Arm Guide Plate Conversion (Recommended for Crane Cam to convert Non Adjustable Ford heads to Adjustable)
6) Crane Steel and Ductile Iron Rocker Arms
7) Crane Z-Series Camshaft and Lifter kit ( Duration @ 0.050" : 206*/212* - Lift : 0.461"/0.475" - Intake Center Line : 107* - Lobe Separation :112* - 1,200 to 5,000 basic rpm range)
8) FelPro Intake Gasket set
9) FelPro Timing Cover Gasket set
10) Headman Street Headers (has OEM connection, states it fits 86-96 F series trucks and broncos with a 302. Exhaust manifold for a 86 F150 302 is same part number as a 80-85 F150 302. So in reality these manifolds should fit 80 - 96 F series trucks. Does have one O2 bung that will need to be plugged)
11) Melling Oil Pump Screen
12) Melling Oil Pump (will buy this if a Melling is not supplied with long block)
13) Dorman Timing Cover (Waiting for a price for a NOS Ford one from Green Sales, preferably will go with the NOS one if not too crazy on price)

Aside from that just the motor from PTP for $2,222 for the long block, the core and the shipping. Then I am tempted to buy from Jegs their Off Road Y-pipe for my truck so I can install a new pipe then I will probably go with Waldron Exhaust and buy a cat back exhaust system and install my own muffler. Should be right around $4,500 by time I am finished. Should come out cheaper than the upgrade route and will get more work done on the truck than before.

Aside from that this might be a bit early to post since I wont have any photos to provide for updating but I want to get this posted now so I will be reminded to update when possible on this. Not sure I will pay for a dyno shop to see what this engine makes, but DD2000 which is only as accurate as the specs you put in are, I used flow data from stock E7TE heads which I am pretty sure are not going to be correct for this. I figure it should give me a ball park idea. With small tube headers which I guess would be correct for shorty street headers, it is showing I will have a peak of 303 Ft/lbs of torque at 2,000 RPM and a peak of 207 HP at 4,000 RPM. So I always said I would be happy with a 200hp engine for my truck as this one feels like this reman is lucky to push 100hp as my heavier '78 Mercury with 2.50:1 axle gear will walk all over this truck with a 2.95:1 axle gear which is more like a 2.65:1 axle gear with the 31" tires.
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Rusty_S View Post
So I decided to get from PTP their 80-86 302 long block, .
What happened to using a late model longblock? I don't understand why you would deliberately buy a low compression smog era longblock which will come with some of the worst heads Ford ever produced and have to deal with breaking in and maintaining a flat tappet cam when you could bypass all that with a newer motor.
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
What happened to using a late model longblock? I don't understand why you would deliberately buy a low compression smog era longblock which will come with some of the worst heads Ford ever produced and have to deal with breaking in and maintaining a flat tappet cam when you could bypass all that with a newer motor.
Money, that is the reason. My truck has sat for going on 3 months now. I want it back on the road and I barely have enough money saved up for doing a stock engine with a few goodies in it. If I have to save up $5,000 to do the late model engine conversion it would take me a year or longer considering I am commission in a shop that the owner doesn't know how to ensure all employees get something to do so I end up making $150 to $250 a week on the few bull**** jobs I got.

So I had to make a decision. let the truck sit longer, **** the fuel tank up and the brakes and cause myself a lot more work and money, or go the cheaper route and go with a stock engine with a cam upgrade and then later on when money permits I can upgrade the heads and intake when the money is there.

Plus a late model explorer 5.0 engine is rated around 240 hp. Can I really justify spending $5,000 for a 240hp engine when I could spend $4,000 with Summit and buy a stroker for that price that makes even more power.

In the end I will be not running the air pump and the emission ports in heads will be plugged. So I figure down the road after I move and after I got some money saved up I can buy a set of reman GT40 heads and swap on here and reuse my headers and then swap the intake and carb around. The cam I have picked stated 8.0:1 to 9.5:1 compression is recommended. The GT40 heads on this 302 should put it at 9:1 - 9.5:1 which should keep it with in the recommended range for the cam.
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:14 PM
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The explorer 5.0 is a 300hp motor with a cam upgrade and full exhaust, it's 250hp as it sits. I understand if it's too much money to buy as a reman but that's not the motor I was asking about anyway I meant a regular '94+ truck motor with E7 heads, is that any more expensive than the smog motor?

If you really want the truck back on the road as cheap as possible have you explored just getting a running used motor to put in it?
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
The explorer 5.0 is a 300hp motor with a cam upgrade and full exhaust, it's 250hp as it sits. I understand if it's too much money to buy as a reman but that's not the motor I was asking about anyway I meant a regular '94+ truck motor with E7 heads, is that any more expensive than the smog motor?

If you really want the truck back on the road as cheap as possible have you explored just getting a running used motor to put in it?
Well this is the thing if I get the roller cam equipped 302 I will need to buy the $100 dist gear for my dist to convert it to the right gear material for roller cam. Wont be a big deal.

But this is what I am looking at, the 80-86 long block with core and the $200 shipping is $2,222.00.

The 94-96 302 long block with core and the $200 shipping is $2,249.00 which isn't much more. But now throw in the $100 more for the dist gear for the roller cam to be able to use a stock '82 dist. Then throw in the $250 for the Summit 600cfm carb as I doubt this motor would make advertised power with a 351cfm 2v carb. Then another $250 for the Edelbrock intake manifold. So Im looking at an extra $600 roughly to my summit price list which was already at $1,300 for what I need to do the way I decided on now.

If I could get the 94-96 302 long block and keep my stock 2V intake and stock 351 CFM 2V carb and make advertised HP out of this engine then yes I would gladly spend the extra $100 for a dist gear and be on my way. But my gut tells me a 2V carb especially a 351 CFM one will not be enough for a 302 with better flowing heads.

Well I guess the $1,300 list I have now does have a lot of Crane camshaft parts. Probably be cheaper to go with a Crane roller cam and this motor. But still intake and carb and I keep hearing mixed reviews on the Summit 4V carb made by holley. engine builder says they are junk they are based off the old ford 4V carb that didn't work worth a ****. then I got others claiming the carb works great set it and forget it just like my 2150 I have now.
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:34 PM
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But you can always upgrade the carb and intake later as money allows, same goes for the exhaust.. put the manifolds back on it for now and upgrade to headers later. The late model engine doesn't need a cam upgrade, better valve springs and all that other stuff just to make it respectable so take all those parts off the list, all you need is gaskets, a stock timing cover and oilpan and stock volume oilpump to make it work. Now how much does it cost?
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
But you can always upgrade the carb and intake later as money allows. The late model engine doesn't need a cam upgrade, better valve springs and all that other stuff just to make it respectable so take all those parts off the list, all you need is gaskets, a stock timing cover and oilpan and stock volume oilpump to make it work. Now how much does it cost?
Well, the long block comes with a oil pump. I hope it comes with a melling if it doesn't I have a M68 stock volume/pressure Melling oil pump from summit for $37.94 on my list. I also have a 68-S3 Melling oil pump screen for a '82 F150 302 for $27.30 as I want new vs trying to clean my old one. Hmmm the long block comes with a gasket set but so far I ordered some upgrade gaskets to help eliminate leakage over time, such as the FelPro one piece oil pan gasket for $19.89, and the Fel Pro Perma-Dry Plus rubber valve cover gasket for $25.99. I also got the Fel Pro header gasket for $18.99 as well as the crane cam degree wheel for $39.10. I have to see if I can go back and cancel my order and make changes if I can I can drop the crane cam degree wheel and spend the $39.10 towards the $20.99 for the ARP harden oil pump drive shaft.

Aside from that header bolt kit for $18.99, Fel Pro Intake Gasket $21.99, the Headman Street headers for $272.99. The timing cover I have to wait and see, I can get a dorman one for $80.95 but Green Sales has some NOS Ford ones waiting for a price quote on that.

Figure $100 for the dist gear I will need a steel dist gear for the oem '82 dist so it doesn't chew up the roller cam.

So if my math is right I am at $573.56 on summit for everything excluding the $39.10 for the degree wheel which I am going to see if I can cancel right now.

So $2,249 for the long block plus $573.56 puts me at $2,822.56.

Now the big question is, if I decide to say screw it and just keep my oem 2V intake and 2V carb, how good would the engine run? Would it still make decent power, more so than what I currently have?

I wonder if I could get a 2150 2V carb from a larger engine if that would work. The inspector I used to work for the old timer he had helping him when I went to get my truck inspected said he had a 2150 off a old Ford 400 that was the big 500ish CFM 2V and if I wanted it I could have it if he found it in his garage since he was cleaning up.

I wonder if I slapped a 500 cfm 2V 2150 on if it would liven the late model engine up enough to where I wouldn't have to go changing intake manifolds. Hmmm now I got more questions I have to ask than answers.
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:58 PM
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Those 1 piece rubber pan gaskets are a lot better than cork.. good choice there. Yes the motor would make more power than what you currently have, it has higher compression so it will make more torque regardless and it'll make more HP too up to the limits of the carb which isn't much of a limitation technically, on paper a 302 is good to 5000rpm with a 400 CFM carb.
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
Those 1 piece rubber pan gaskets are a lot better than cork.. good choice there. Yes the motor would make more power than what you currently have, it has higher compression so it will make more torque regardless and it'll make more HP too up to the limits of the carb which isn't much of a limitation technically, on paper a 302 is good to 5000rpm with a 400 CFM carb.
So a 351 cfm 2V realistically would be adequate for a street 302 then. I don't think I ever seen my tach move much past 4,000 rpm when I floor her. Either the tach is off which I don't think its off that much or its just the C6 needs the vacuum modulator adjusted which I never messed with after I replaced the old leaking one.

I can get an edelbrock intake manifold they come with a 2V adapter to mount the stock 2V on.

My big thing is I can get the Summit M2008 series carb, its a 600 CFM 4V vac secondary with electric choke. its a one piece design so there is no gaskets below the fuel level and from the research I done its made by Holley for Summit. Also has annular boosters all for $280 with tuning DVD for this 600 CFM carb. Also is universal throttle hook up but has a built in Ford kick down. The Edelbrocks didn't have that, had to get a ford kick down adapter which put the throttle way out over the valve cover.

Needless to say I have no problem spending an extra $216 for an edelbrock intake manifold, saves me time cleaning my old cast iron 2V intake. But question is 2V adapter and run the 351 CFM 2V and let it ride or do this for the time being then upgrade to the Summit Racing 600 CFM 4V.

This is the carb.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...00vs/overview/

Engine builder says its the same junk that ford had for their old 4V and the thing never worked right nor stayed tune and never really made any power. I don't know if its based off the old ford 4V or not.

All I know is it looks better than the edelbrock carb which has mechanical weighted secondaries where this has vacuum operated secondaries.

None the less I canceled my summit order will re place it for just the gaskets once they accept the cancel request.

Looks like I will be going with the shorty headers, the 94-96 long block as its only what $15 more than the 80-86 long block. Will have to pull my old dist and measure the shaft of the dist as there are two dist gears listed. Or say screw it and buy both for almost $200 then return the size I don't need. Intake manifold I don't know. Im tempted on the edelbrock performer but not too sure about coil mount and all that. Need to call them up next week and see if they started putting oem coil mounts on the edelbrock performer intake manifolds. Also need to see if OEM throttle cable brackets will bolt up as well.

**** looks like my plans have turned 180* now. But this is cheaper. I was looking at around $3300 for the stock motor with the cam upgrade, the gasket upgrades and the shorty headers. Now im looking at $2855. I mean **** I could pretty much order all that stuff from Summit right now then save up for a few more weeks at work and I could buy the long block.

Keeping the motor stock also helps with warranty if there is any problem I haven't touched anything inside the engine which is great. Not sure how they will look at me stripping their black paint off and repainting it Ford Dark Blue.

On another note I forgot I might have to change the timing set cause I will need to run a fuel pump eccentric. But that is minor there as I was looking at a timing set anyways for the cam swap since I needed to get a non retarded crank sprocket. I found a nice street true double roller one for like $30 from Cloyes for use with a 2 piece fuel pump eccentric.

Also I never used those one piece gaskets before but Ive seen lots of people swear by them. Considering I don't want oil leaks now nor 20 years down the road from now I rather go with newer tech to ensure I wont have that. Plus I got to be careful I had originally planned on running synthetic oil post break in.
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:27 PM
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Don't strip the motor just paint over it... unless it's already flaking off when you get it. And the only thing to break-in on a roller motor are the piston rings so you can drive it right away. Do those rubber gaskets have a steel core or gromets at the bolt holes? I put the Ford versions on my 5.8 and it never leaked.
Fuel pump eccentric bolts on in front of the timing set but the Cloyes true roller is better quality.
 
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
Don't strip the motor just paint over it... unless it's already flaking off when you get it. And the only thing to break-in on a roller motor are the piston rings so you can drive it right away. Do those rubber gaskets have a steel core or gromets at the bolt holes? I put the Ford versions on my 5.8 and it never leaked.
Fuel pump eccentric bolts on in front of the timing set but the Cloyes true roller is better quality.
The rubber gaskets have a steel core.

I couldn't tell in the photo if the cam sprocket had a raised edge for the two piece eccentric to bolt onto or not. Why I figure go with the street true roller since I am there considering the timing cover isn't on.

I also rolled around in my head with the GT40 explorer engine about running a windage tray. Found one that would work with a rear sump stock oil pan. Some claim it would help on a street truck others say it wouldn't. Some said throw it in there its only $30 cant hurt.

Ah ok so just wash the black paint down to remove any oil coating they might have put on it then just spray it down with paint on top.
 
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Rusty_S View Post
Looks like I will be going with the shorty headers,

Intake manifold I don't know. Im tempted on the edelbrock performer but not too sure about coil mount and all that. Need to call them up next week and see if they started putting oem coil mounts on the Edelbrock performer intake manifolds. Also need to see if OEM throttle cable brackets will bolt up as well.

Also I never used those one piece gaskets before but Ive seen lots of people swear by them. Considering I don't want oil leaks now nor 20 years down the road from now I rather go with newer tech to ensure I wont have that. Plus I got to be careful I had originally planned on running synthetic oil post break in.
I just received one of the Summit discount flyers, and there's a 10% off code for BBK in case you're looking at BBK shorty headers.

I just bought one of the Performer 289 4v intake manifolds, and it came with an adapter plate to mount the stock throttle cable bracket, and there was a boss to mount the coil on as well, right in the stock location. I don't have it at the moment as I gave it all to the engine shop that is building my 302.

I went with the 1pc Fel-Pro gaskets for both the oil pan and valve covers. They were the Perma-Dry Plus versions or whatever they're called...light blue in color, with the metal inserts where the bolts pass through. I can't comment on them much at this point except that they were double or 3 times the price of regular gaskets. They seem to get good reviews.

I too had a difficult time justifying spending all the money I have on this thing...it was never really meant to end up this way...lol. Conanski's posts have been a big help in all of the research that I did. Take his advice.

I don't really have any regrets per se, but with hindsight being 20/20, I probably should have spent a few extra bucks and bought a roller block for my 302 build. I was trying to keep the costs down, I wanted to keep the original engine, and I was hoping that being such a low mile engine it was only going to need a cylinder hone and new rings. Now it's bored out with new pistons, etc. It's really not a big deal to me, but with the benefit of hindsight, I probably should have bought a roller block. Live and learn.
 
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Old 05-27-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Rembrant View Post
I just received one of the Summit discount flyers, and there's a 10% off code for BBK in case you're looking at BBK shorty headers.

I just bought one of the Performer 289 4v intake manifolds, and it came with an adapter plate to mount the stock throttle cable bracket, and there was a boss to mount the coil on as well, right in the stock location. I don't have it at the moment as I gave it all to the engine shop that is building my 302.

I went with the 1pc Fel-Pro gaskets for both the oil pan and valve covers. They were the Perma-Dry Plus versions or whatever they're called...light blue in color, with the metal inserts where the bolts pass through. I can't comment on them much at this point except that they were double or 3 times the price of regular gaskets. They seem to get good reviews.

I too had a difficult time justifying spending all the money I have on this thing...it was never really meant to end up this way...lol. Conanski's posts have been a big help in all of the research that I did. Take his advice.

I don't really have any regrets per se, but with hindsight being 20/20, I probably should have spent a few extra bucks and bought a roller block for my 302 build. I was trying to keep the costs down, I wanted to keep the original engine, and I was hoping that being such a low mile engine it was only going to need a cylinder hone and new rings. Now it's bored out with new pistons, etc. It's really not a big deal to me, but with the benefit of hindsight, I probably should have bought a roller block. Live and learn.
That's good to hear. I heard some came with the adapter for the factory throttle cable bracket and others required you to purchase separately.

Sadly I didn't see any shorty BBK headers listed for a 85-96 F150 truck. I will double check none the less just to be sure. I really like the headman headers weve used them at work and they fit great and look great. Best part is lot of them come with the OEM style connection at the flange so they bolt up to stock systems. None of this paper gasket header collector gasket bs to blow out.

I would love a roller block but I ended up with a $5,000 engine off the bat and I am like do I really want to spend $5,000 on the GT40 explorer engine to put it in a truck with 31" tires a C6 transmission and 2.90:1 axle ratio out back. This is a driver so I started thinking maybe I could cut corners save money and get something better than my stock smog engine that was rebuilt by the ****ty local engine shop nearly 20 years ago. Now I am looking at doing the 94-96 E7 head long block as the long block with core and shipping is only like $15 more than what I would be spending now. Down side is I don't have a core to turn in as my engine is not a 94-97 E7 head engine. No big deal its only like $320-$350 for the core. I can always take and go through this motor and have a spare. Realistically there is nothing wrong with this engine it ran great. The balancer broke the side out and spun on the crank. Then in the process of getting the pinched crank bolt out, that big 5/8" bolt snapped off in the crank with about an inch of bolt left in the crank.

Sure I could pull the engine and swap in a new crank for $150. But it still leaves me with a engine that leaks oil and burns oil. The crappy engine shop here that did the head work they just knurled the valve guides and didn't replace them so from day one this engine with 10W30 would burn a quart of oil in 75 miles of highway driving. Didn't smoke how ever and didn't foul the plugs out with oil fouling just would eventually foul out with ash deposits. So in my mind to pull the engine just to throw a crank in it would not be smart. I would have to reseal the whole engine and get head work done. Engine builder I know said to rebuild those stock heads both of them properly and to stock specs would be close to $650 for the pair of heads. So I would be at close to $1,200 to get this good engine fixed properly.

Then that doesn't account for the chance of spending $1,200 and then the engine is great and fine then it breaks a ring or burns a piston or some un known mechanical failure inside the engine happens a year or two down the road. Would make me wish I had just put a new engine in and been done.

My biggest worry is using the 94-97 long block and then not seeing any change in power because I am running the oem stock intake and 351 CFM 2150 carb. I could get the Performer Intake for $216.95 which isn't a big deal but I am afraid the 351 CFM carb might not be big enough for this engine with better heads. I know my '78 Mercury has a 351W under the hood that runs great with the stock 351 CFM 2150 carb. I feel if a 351 CFM 2150 carb can feed 351 Cubes it should feed 302 Cubes. But then we are talking about different animals as well as I am sure the E7 heads will flow more air/fuel than the stock 351W heads from '78 so now I am wary.

I understand fully that the engine will run with a smaller carb it just wont make as much power, hell boss at work has a limited dirt car that his son drives its a high rpm race 350 sbc and they are running a damn chokeless 2150 2V carb. So I know smaller will work. I just hate the thought of doing this work and find out the truck doesn't even have the power it had before cause the carb is limiting the power.

But I will just have to give it a go. Engine builder I know that we used to use at work but he takes too damn long and doesn't give but a year warranty on his stuff, he told me out right that Summit 4V carb built by Holley for Summit is nothing but a copy of the old Ford 4V carb that was junk. So now I am worried if I am going to have drive ability problems compared to the 2150 I have now. This carb I never had to mess with the adjustment on it, just get in hit the throttle fire up throw it in gear and go.
 
  #14  
Old 05-27-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Rusty_S View Post

Sadly I didn't see any shorty BBK headers listed for a 85-96 F150 truck. I will double check none the less just to be sure.
I ordered the BBK-3510 shorties. They're chrome and I think a little bigger than the others (with 1 5/8" tubes as opposed to 1 1/2"). They're listed as fitting '87-'92 F150 with 302/5.0 so I'm not sure why they don't fit the earlier trucks. I guess I'll find out the hard way if they don't...lol. Expensive mistakes are my specialty.

I came close to buying a 351 roller short block. It was only listed for sale online for a few hours and it was already sold by the time I found it. I think that would have been a better option all the way around, but I'll wait and see how the old old 302 works. I'm supposed to be getting it back from the engine shop this coming Thursday. I'll have to add up all the costs and see where it is when I get it back, but I don't really want to...lol.
 
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rembrant View Post
I ordered the BBK-3510 shorties. They're chrome and I think a little bigger than the others (with 1 5/8" tubes as opposed to 1 1/2"). They're listed as fitting '87-'92 F150 with 302/5.0 so I'm not sure why they don't fit the earlier trucks. I guess I'll find out the hard way if they don't...lol. Expensive mistakes are my specialty.

I came close to buying a 351 roller short block. It was only listed for sale online for a few hours and it was already sold by the time I found it. I think that would have been a better option all the way around, but I'll wait and see how the old old 302 works. I'm supposed to be getting it back from the engine shop this coming Thursday. I'll have to add up all the costs and see where it is when I get it back, but I don't really want to...lol.
Should fit. I saw the Headman ones listed as 86-96 F150, Bronco with the 302. I looked up in my ford parts and illustration guide and found 80 - 86 exhaust manifolds are the same exact part. So if the exhaust manifold for an '86 has the same part number as for an 80-85 then it should fit our trucks. I know up to '92 the cabs were all the same only mirrors and interior and front sheet metal was changed. I believe the chassis remained un changed up to '96.

The Headman street headers im looking at are 1 1/2" primaries. I honestly think the smaller for a street truck that wont turn much over 4,000 - 4,500 rpm would benefit from the 1 1/2" primary over the larger 1 5/8" primaries.

Plus I hope the smaller tubes mean the bolts are easier to put in and plugs easier to access.

Found the chrome/coated ones you are talking about by BBK, holy **** the tubes looks like it will be a bitch when it comes time to change plugs or sparkplug wires. Think I will stick with the 1 1/2" Headman header primaries. Plus I didn't see where it states it will mate up to OEM exhaust, the Headman ones will bolt up to OEM Y pipe so it makes a new exhaust system on mine easier for me to do.

Buy the Jegs off road Y pipe for my truck then I can buy from Waldron Exhaust the OEM cat back exhaust system and install my own muffler I choose.

Also I prefer painted, the painted ones are not painted high temp but are just painted for storage to prevent rust. I plan on stripping the paint off, welding a bolt to the #1 tube so I can form a sheet metal duct for the emission tube from the aircleaner to fit to. Then take it to this black guy we know at work that can powder coat them for little to nothing. Was thinking of the Eastwood high temp exhaust powder in a cast iron or stainless steel color to give a bare metal factory look.
 

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