I know it's in MA, but it's $200 cheaper.
https://worcester.craigslist.org/pts...477670334.html

 

If you try to run that dove block and dove heads you think you have piston problems now you will have all 8 with broken ring lands in short order unless your willing to faithfully add octane booster like torco every fill up.

 

So what do you do then, if u can't run dove block and dove heads then what is the right mix. Does the dove block need D9 heads or do u put dove heads on D9 block?

 

See post 59.

That shortblock with 95cc D3 heads is perfect for your application.

 

Bull I've run that combo in the 77 on regular with no issues since the 80's. Back the totoal timing off run it a bit fat and don't buy cheap unleaded and you will be fine ,ethanol fuels have much better anti knock properties so do not shy away from them either.

 

So correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the D0VE blocks originally come with D0VE heads in 1970? I don't think there was D9VE heads till 1979. I'm sure they didn't add octane booster every fill up back then.

D= decade, in this case the '70s
9= the year that casting was first released (NOT necessarily the year/birthday of the part in question); a particular casting can be used for years, as was the D3VE head
V=the model line the part was designed for (primarily); here it represents the Lincoln model line...but of course they could be & were used in other models
E= engine part

On the D9VE heads, are you sure they are not C9VE heads? In this case the D0VE and the C9VE heads are pretty much the same.
casting-numbers-descriptions-1-index

 

Fuels were much different back then, and still they had a predisposition for detonation/pinging. Can they be run on today's fuels? Sure... but you'll need to run premium and a quality octane booster in most instances. This has been my understanding after a lot of research while prepping to build my 460. They're great for power, and high compression, but not really a streetable daily driver engine.

 

An iron headed 10.5:1 engine will run fine all day on 93 octane and mean best timing depending on cam choice. I did it for years in a 3500lb car.

Most people shoot for max 180 psi cranking with iron heads and 200 psi for alum heads and pump gas in a street deal.

Depending on the variables I listed in post 59, there are no issues.

Generally speaking, a non-max effort, DD type, 5000lb, 4wd truck, that can see occasional hauling or towing duties, I would not recommend a 10.5:1 iron headed deal. The little bit of efficiency gained is not worth the risk of detonation from poor gas, poor tuneup, excessively muggy/hot weather...etc.

The risk is not worth the reward.

 

Actually today's fuels in many areas are more resistant to detonation than they were years ago. Vehicles that pinged like crazy in the 80's and 70's don't with modern fuels. Compression ratio's are on the rise again and the fuels have adapted to it.

And when building an engine it is much easier to reduce compression than it is to build it. 10.5 to 1 is not ideal in a heavy truck and you need to be conservative with total timing and the curve and run them a bit fat. Do that and should have no issues.
As for being in a 5000LBS truck these engines were originally in 5000 lbs cars with very high gearing and were in wagons with 5000 lb tow so not using it in a 5000lbs truck that tows is sort of a non starter argument. as they were used in basically the same sort of application in the full cars of the era..
The old 77 F250 SC had just such an engine C9 block and D0VE Heads on 10.25 to 1 CR and regularly hauled a 2000lbs + camper and pulled a 5000 lbs trailer. And pinging was never really an issue on good quality regular unleaded. Run on, on the other hand.... that necessitated the addition of a throttle solenoid. Unlike the Chev BB the 385's will tolerate a full compression point more before detonation occurs on the same fuel. 10.5 in the 460 is equivalent to 9.5 in a 454 in terms of potential detonation on the same fuel.

The limiting factor as what CR you can run will be the fuel quality in your area as it varies wildly from state to state.

Have no fear of using an early 429/460 block and heads as you can adjust your CR with piston dish and head gasket thickness yes a flat top is the best for flame propagation but some times you have to compromise.
Best thing to do is ask the builders in your area and ask them what they recommend as to the CR with the DOVE heads, if they have any experience with them they will know the safe limit.

 

If you need to run a conservative timing curve and fat on the fuel, what was gained by the extra point of compression?

A properly tuned 9.5:1 deal will outperform an ill-tuned 10.5:1 deal with the same parts....all the while with less risk of rod brg or ring land damage due to being on the edge of spark knock.

10.5:1 in a 5000lb 4x4 DD type truck with 385 series is not recommended on pump gas unless you don't treat it as a truck or live at high altitude.

Possible? Sure!....but IMO, not the best choice.

 

Fat in today parlance is Stoichiometric almost every thing is tuned leaner, run her a little fat under acceleration and all will be good.
And where you get the gain is where you spend most of your time...cruise and that gain is efficiency. And a conservative timing curve is far more aggressive than factory. Just don't go looking for every last HP out of timing.. And I ran 10.25:1 460 that was 450+ HP in an 77 SC F 250 for 25 years on reg pump gas with no issues , finally retired her after 150k miles a rod bolt let lose but she was built long before ARP bits were around..
So ya 25 years experience with the combo says different.

 

 

Marginally better HP the difference is not that great it was less then 30HP. But still better fuel efficiency and HP and much better torque than a lower compression equivalent. If you are running big cubes it;s the torque you're after and nothing builds torque better than higher compression. And unless you're racing there is no need to run stuff on the ragged edge any way. So your saying ruining lower a compression motor closer the ragged edge to hopefully match the HP of a conservatively tuned high compression motor and then still not getting the torque or efficiency is better ? Ya better rethink that one.......

 

 

Oh I read exatly what you said " Except that with a proper tune it would have more more peak power, more avg power, and better fuel economy".

I think you really do not understand exactly how ignition curves or setting up your fuel air mix work or the difference between setting them up conservatively or aggressively . There is no "tune" this is not EFI .

Your set ups for ignition curve or fuel curve can be set to what you want to achieve.
Set ignition timing aggressive for maximum power and acceleration and have no room for variables or set it up conservatively and give up some maximum potential HP to allow for varying fuel quality, ambient temps, engine load compression ratio etc, neither is good , bad or weak it is set for what you want to achieve and the operation parameters the engine is expected to operate in. By your way of thinking the factory curves are a "bad tune" while not optimized for efficiency or power they were optimized to cover the largest possible range of operational parameters and drivers. That does not make it bad or weak just because they were not optimized for maximum efficiency or power. They did leave a lot of potential HP and efficiency off the table, but this was done for a reason.
Same with fuel curve you can tune for max efficiency but this also narrows the variables it will accept before detonation and the other hand max power is usually achieved running stuff a bit fat which is a win for keeping combustion temps down but a loss for efficiency. All the older applications prior to emissions were run a fat by today's standards.

Get off this bad or weak tune stuff. the only time that could be applied if it is set up for one thing and is being used for another. Or in EFI applications and this is NOT EFI.....

Regardless there is nothing wrong with running a high compression engine as long as you set it up for the application and parameters it will see.

To get the maximum usable HP out of the same engine in a drag car in it is not going to have the set ups as a street driven 4x4 that tows on occasion ..

Ideally if emissions are not a concern you want to run the highest compression ratio you can get away with, in the 385's with early heads this is 10:1 or better on today's fuels with out having to resort to premium or race fuels or water injection. You will leave some potential HP off the table but the gain is more torque and better cruise efficiency than the lower compression equivalent. And in a truck that tows torque is what you want and really who does not want better fuel economy. This in part why I was able to regularly get 15 MPG US in the 77 on the hyway at 70 MPH with the C6 .
So ya there is nothing wrong with running the early heads in a truck provided you do not set it up like it is in a drag car.