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HD4R100 - Question

  #16  
Old 02-09-2018, 06:07 PM
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So the dealer wanted to charge freight for a ****ty paint job transmission?

Then they were going to give your son a $300 better price than they gave an employee at the dealer?

Remind me NEVER to visit a dealer near Bemidji, MN...
 
  #17  
Old 02-09-2018, 06:42 PM
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Document every step you do with the install. Follow their directions to the "T". If you have a warranty issue, you'll be glad you did.
 
  #18  
Old 02-09-2018, 09:01 PM
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Poor craftsmanship on the outside...good craftsmanship on the inside? The analogy I would use is the one where they say that you can tell what a restaurant's kitchen is like by checking out the bathroom...
 
  #19  
Old 02-13-2018, 11:45 AM
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I wouldn't be happy about it, and would have doubts about how clean the inside is.

I rebuild Diesel Fuel Injection pumps for a living, and can tell you that in that business, you must get the outside as clean as possible to keep the inside clean. I realize that the clearances in an tranny aren't in the same universe as an Injection pump but still, you have to be reasonable clean with them.This is mainly because any "grit" you get on your hands (or gloves) will find its way to internal parts as you handle them.

BTW, when I rebuilt my own 4R100 a couple of months ago, it was spotless on the outside before I tore it down. I also steam cleaned it twice inside and out before reassembling (once before resurfacing the valve block surface and once more afterwards). During reassembly I didn't have to wash my hands (just wipe excess oil off with a lint-free rag/towel.
 
  #20  
Old 02-14-2018, 03:40 PM
mtbraun
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Originally Posted by Sous View Post
So the dealer wanted to charge freight for a ****ty paint job transmission?

Then they were going to give your son a $300 better price than they gave an employee at the dealer?

Remind me NEVER to visit a dealer near Bemidji, MN...



...basically yes.
 
  #21  
Old 02-14-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbraun View Post
I just got a HD4R100 for my son's 2001 F250 from my local Ford dealer. When looking at the trans I noticed the case prep was horrible and they just painted over a bunch of crud and grease on the case.


It's probably nothing and I assume the trans is built fine and there will be no issues. But I can't help think that with case prep this poor that something else was left to slide.


What would you guys do?
There is nothing to worry about.

Keep in mind that Ford reman transmissions are done on an assembly line in volume. This isn't some mom/pop trans shop where everything is scrubbed and built by hand.

The transmission cases are inspected for cracks and damage, given an acid bath, then painted. The acid bath is for the inside of the case, not the outside. There's no one on the assembly line to wire brush the outside of the case. Things have to keep moving on the line, and the outside of the trans case isn't worth worrying over since it has no effect on the final product.

The days of dealerships getting 100% hand-built reman engines and trannys is long gone. Automation is taking over as many of these processes as possible to keep costs down and volume up. The prep and paint of a tranny case is one of those automated processes.

You can get a shiny case from any local trans shop. What's put inside is what matters the most, and that quality can vary greatly from shop to shop. At least with the Ford reman there's tens of thousands of units on the road with a solid reputation behind them as being far more stout and reliable than the original, so you know what you're getting.

I know quite a few people that have the Ford HD reman behind their 7.3L and all have been extremely happy.
 
  #22  
Old 02-15-2018, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Pocket View Post
There is nothing to worry about.

Keep in mind that Ford reman transmissions are done on an assembly line in volume. This isn't some mom/pop trans shop where everything is scrubbed and built by hand.

The transmission cases are inspected for cracks and damage, given an acid bath, then painted. The acid bath is for the inside of the case, not the outside. There's no one on the assembly line to wire brush the outside of the case. Things have to keep moving on the line, and the outside of the trans case isn't worth worrying over since it has no effect on the final product.

The days of dealerships getting 100% hand-built reman engines and trannys is long gone. Automation is taking over as many of these processes as possible to keep costs down and volume up. The prep and paint of a tranny case is one of those automated processes.

You can get a shiny case from any local trans shop. What's put inside is what matters the most, and that quality can vary greatly from shop to shop. At least with the Ford reman there's tens of thousands of units on the road with a solid reputation behind them as being far more stout and reliable than the original, so you know what you're getting.

I know quite a few people that have the Ford HD reman behind their 7.3L and all have been extremely happy.

I'm not ultimately concerned about the inside. I have a warranty, followed their instructions to a T and documented everything with notes and pictures.


I disagree on the reman process, though. I used to work for an agricultural remanufacturing company. We rebuilt clutches, water pumps, hydraulic pumps, etc. Every core unit that came in was completely disassembled, washed, blasted (if needed), and washed again. The cases and cores looked like they were brand new when reassembly occurred. We processed thousands of units a year and they looked great when done. For the rebuilder to not prepare the case similarly is very poor craftsmanship and reflects on Ford very poorly.


And this case was painted while it was in the container if you can believe that! I can tell that because the sensors were sloppily covered with tape, the underside of the transmission was not painted, and the drayage case had overspray on it.
 
  #23  
Old 02-15-2018, 10:25 AM
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Maybe to add to Pocket's point, is that the Ford reman process is not "craftsmanship", its an assembly line process meant to pump out a thousand a month.

However, I agree that I would want the whole thing to be cleaned and painted properly
 
  #24  
Old 02-15-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnance865 View Post
Maybe to add to Pocket's point, is that the Ford reman process is not "craftsmanship", its an assembly line process meant to pump out a thousand a month.

However, I agree that I would want the whole thing to be cleaned and painted properly


Understand...my choice of words could also be stated "pride in your work." There's still a large element of human handling and interaction in large scale rebuilding, transmissions or otherwise.
 
  #25  
Old 02-15-2018, 11:50 AM
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  #26  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sous View Post
The excuse of thousands being created every month is a BS answer for a world class company. An assembly line was created for efficiency and standardization. Do we see Honda Accords coming off the line missing a steering wheel or none of the exterior lights working?

Are we to assume that the standard for the HD4100R has dropped so low that the case is painted only on the top because that is all that is visible? If so, then I am even happier that I have a truck that is not of the newer generations.

This is **** poor work as far as I am concerned and if I had seen something like this from a subordinate in the military, they would have been put in charge of training others what not to do and how to get it done right until I felt they were comfortable with the task they were there to perform.
How is it "**** poor work" if it has precisely zero bearing on the final build quality?

Any transmission shop can sell you a rebuilt tranny that looks sparkly clean on the outside, and still fail in a short amount of time. A turd in a pretty package is still a turd.

Furthermore, the transmission is tucked up inside the tunnel, out of sight unless you're crawling underneath. Even then, after a few thousand miles it's dirty. So why does it have to have a perfect paint job in the first place?

Even more, nearly all of these are installed by the dealer and/or fleet techs. The end customer almost never sees these transmissions inside the box.

Even even more more..... none of this has had any effect on the mechanical quality that we have seen from the Ford reman HD4R100's over the years. They have a solid reputation.

So tell me, what's the point again of this much fuss over a paint job on a transmission case? I honestly don't get it.
 
  #27  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbraun View Post
Understand...my choice of words could also be stated "pride in your work." There's still a large element of human handling and interaction in large scale rebuilding, transmissions or otherwise.
Ford's pride in work isn't what the product looks like sitting in the box, something that 99% of customers will never see.

The pride in work is that the part will function as promised.
 
  #28  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbraun View Post
I disagree on the reman process, though. I used to work for an agricultural remanufacturing company. We rebuilt clutches, water pumps, hydraulic pumps, etc. Every core unit that came in was completely disassembled, washed, blasted (if needed), and washed again. The cases and cores looked like they were brand new when reassembly occurred. We processed thousands of units a year and they looked great when done. For the rebuilder to not prepare the case similarly is very poor craftsmanship and reflects on Ford very poorly.


And this case was painted while it was in the container if you can believe that! I can tell that because the sensors were sloppily covered with tape, the underside of the transmission was not painted, and the drayage case had overspray on it.
Originally Posted by mcnance865 View Post
Maybe to add to Pocket's point, is that the Ford reman process is not "craftsmanship", its an assembly line process meant to pump out a thousand a month.

However, I agree that I would want the whole thing to be cleaned and painted properly
Just FYI, Ford doesn't actually reman anything themselves. It's all outsourced.

For example, CAT remans the 7.3L PSD for Ford. Those have black sticky smelly paint heavily coated on EVERYTHING on that motor, sprayed on about as sloppy as anything. And this is something that a greater number of customers will see.

Ford is interested only in the reman meeting their specs that they specify to the builder. Paint is obviously not a spec that Ford holds vendors tightly to.
 
  #29  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:37 PM
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  #30  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sous View Post
Mtbraun asked for our thoughts and opinions, that is what we have provided.
Yes, we did.

In the end, what's more important to the topic of this thread and the concerns the OP shared with the rest of us? Looks or reliability?

You yourself have agreed in your post (in a round-about way) that looks are "indicative" of quality, but not necessarily determines final quality in how the product functions and the overall reliability. In other words, looks really doesn't matter in the end as long as it works like it should.

Just trying to keep things in perspective for the OP and those reading/participating in this thread. Seems silly to me to worry about a paint job when the important stuff is on the inside.
 

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