Your just a tad condescending! Wish we all had a negotiating god, like you, with us when we went into negotiate a deal!

 

Car buying advice is condescending????

None of that was meant to be condescending. It was meant to help you and others here understand what's behind the numbers.

 

Expecting the dealer to give you every effing dime he might actually make - as some here have pretty much said they expected - is what I'm talking about. Sorry it was that confusing.

 

Clearly, some people can handle it when you present them with facts, information, and logical explanations. Oh well, welcome to 2017 post-Obama America ...

 

Sorry you thought I was confused !

 

Holiday Ford

 

[QUOTE=tiger275;17582188]I have been negotiating on various trucks (F350) for the past few days and got this response from one of the better priced dealers today....thoughts? Is this even remotely honest? Feels odd based on everything I have ever read about how dealerships are "really compensated"

MSRP = 78,555 (incl dest)

.... I just read through your email that you sent ZZZ about your thoughts on pricing. The invoice on the truck is $74053.02 invoice. Holdback is $2321holdback. Bringing dealers true cost to $71732.02dealer cost (= invoice - holdback). once you take the $2750 in rebates off of that it brings it to $68982.02 cost after rebates (=dealer cost -rebates) as a 100% $0 for us at the dealership. Ford went away with monthly and annually volume incentives almost 2 years ago. There is no floor plan incentives. So for us to sell you this truck at $68982.02cost after rebate would be a complete $0 profit for us. what you buy in financing is up to you. Your offer of $6600015% off MSRP would require me to lose $2982.02 invoice - holdback -
rebates - $3000. I unfortunately would not be interested in doing that. The price you were quoted cost after rebates + $1000makes the dealership $1000 which is not unreasonable for an $80,000 truck ....

Updated and clarified (hopefully) - Sorry. I should have been more clear. I am not actually trying to validate the $ numbers...so much as I am trying to validate the underlined

 

if a dealer truly has no chance of making a single cent on a deal then they won’t make the deal. Which goes back to the OP’s original question... is there money coming in from somewhere else to compensate a dealer???

I say yes. Based on my purchase experience 2 weeks ago. I also agree that dealers are now using invoice sheets, holdback numbers, and dealer cost amounts as techniques to convince potential buyers that they are getting the best possible deal even when there is a significant amount of money left on the table.

Look at it this way... in today’s age of internet info and forums like this one, people who want a good deal and have done even a tiny bit of research know when they walk in the door that they don’t have to pay anything close to MSRP. Dealerships and the manufacturers know this! The game has changed significantly in the past 15 years. They have adapted! Back in the day “bait and switch” techniques were used by dealers. That stuff is well know by most nowadays. So they have other approaches.

Here’s why I call Bs on the OP’s dealer email: I was shopping for a 17 250 Platinum or KR. I had been researching options & prices and deals for a couple months. Found 5 within 2 hours of me that I was interested in. Took wife to look at a Platinum at the closest dealership. She liked it. We sat down to talk numbers and they went straight into talk about MSRP, invoice, holdback and A-Z pricing. My wife was initially thrown by all the jargon but then started doing the math on what they were telling us (she’s much smarter than I am and also claims I get emotionally attached to the truck I want to buy before I have it and don’t think straight. She’s probably right ) and she called them on their BS. They were saying they were only going to be making $100 on the deal. But what they were doing was adding the rebates into their cost to make it look like THEY were coughing up all that money instead of a chunk ($3500) coming from Ford. Then they stumbled around trying to tell us a different story to make things add up the same. She got up and walked out. I of course followed. They called an hour later saying they could do $500 better. I said based on my wife’s math they could easily do $1200 better. They said no chance. I said thanks for their time but we would keep looking.

They called me twice a day for three days offering better deals each time. I simply said no thank you. They finally called and said they would do it. I was at the dealership waiting for them to get their paperwork together and got a call from a dealership 30 minutes away. They had an almost identical Platinum. I told them I already had an amazing deal and told them what it was. Even though this new one had $1200 in more options, they said they would beat the bottom line by $250 and would sell me the Ford maintenance plan at $1 over cost. When I told the dealership I was at that I had just been offered a better deal they didn’t hesitate to meet it.

SO if they had REALLY already been selling it to me at a $1100 loss with no chance of making any of it back, WHY would they be so quick to lose another $250, and HOW could the other dealership possibly afford to sell the more expensive truck for such a loss!?

i felt that this dealership had just been jerking me around the entire time, so I drove to the other place (Marin County Ford in Novato, CA) and they had me in and out in no time. Zero hassle. No negotiation. Happy to sell me the truck. Which would have been at a loss of around $3000 according to the other dealership’s math.

So I asked the GM (who was just hanging out BSing with me about life & family) how it was possible they could do such a deal. Volume. Volume sales. The more they sell and the faster they sell the more Ford kicks back to them.

So the other place might not have had the ability to go deeper because they don’t sell as many, but when I am truck shopping I’m worried about my bank account, not the dealerships. To each their own though.

Morale of the story, if you think you might be able to get a better deal then go for it. The worst that will happen is they say no.

Oh, and concerns about service at the dealership after “beating them up” is silly IMO. I got the maintenance plan that is good at any dealership so I will take the truck to the closer place. I’ll take it there for warranty issues to. Because they will make $$ from Ford for doing the work. ZERO chance of them turning me away! I’ve been stationed all over this country and have never had one issue getting service done at any dealership even if I had tried to buy from them and went with a different dealer for a little more savings.

i hold no grudges towards that dealership. They played a fine game, but I ended up with the best deal somewhere else. Truth is, if they wouldn’t have taken so much time playing games and just did the deal I asked for in the beginning I would have already bought their truck days before the other place called me.

 

I am so glad I am eligible for Ford A Plan.
No fuss, the deal is set by Ford, and pretty much impossible to beat.

 

Bahaha!!! Good one.

 

Who cares about “negotiating a better deal”? That has nothing to do with a blanket statement of 13% off msrp. I believe you are digging too deep into it.

Let me simplify it.

$48500 = my msrp
$42000 = what I paid
$6500 = the discount off MSRP

6500/48500= .134 Or.... 13.4% off

So yeah it’s REAL simple.

Again, holdbacks and rebates and random dealer “fees” are absolutely designed to confuse the buyer.

 

I'm going to assume you mistyped when you said "can handle it" and you really meant "can not handle it", otherwise I don't think your post makes much sense. I don't mind being presented with facts, but telling everyone how you negotiate and alluding to your way is the only way is not fact...it is opinion. Also, not sure what Obama has to do with this discussion, but you are free to elaborate.

 

Your lack of understanding of the car buying process is not a valid argument against it.

 

I did no such thing.

I tried to show the difference between dealer discounts and manufacturer rebates, and how the final vehicle price is settled by pointing out where discounts are coming from (manufacturer side vs dealer side). Understanding how pricing works is important for negotiating a deal.

Not understanding how discounts work is not a reason to bash it.

 

There you go again.....you keep proving my point!