Can anyone validate this comment?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,293
Likes: 10
From: Parker, CO
Don't let something like that stand in the way of a good deal.
Tuned
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Not sure if they are lying or not about those specific dealer incentives/bonuses, but it is possible to get these trucks for less than invoice minus holdback minus rebates. Just have to work with the right dealer.
My custom ordered 2017 F250 Lariat Value:
$56635.00 MSRP
$53556.86 Invoice
- 2250.00 Rebates ($1500 + $750 FMC)
- 1660.20 Holdback
------------
$49646.66
$48146.00 Purchase price (plus TTL and $250 doc fee)
14.99% off MSRP
My custom ordered 2017 F250 Lariat Value:
$56635.00 MSRP
$53556.86 Invoice
- 2250.00 Rebates ($1500 + $750 FMC)
- 1660.20 Holdback
------------
$49646.66
$48146.00 Purchase price (plus TTL and $250 doc fee)
14.99% off MSRP
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
The dealer I used knocked off $10000 as soon as I sat down to negotiate.
2017 Lariat Ultimate
$71,550 sticker
Tax, title, destination basically negated the $2250 in rebates. I negotiated $25,000 for my 2014 F150. Financed $37.000 even.
So $62000 otd from 71,550.
I used Ford credit to get the rebate. Went to my bank a few weeks later to refi. Frod gave me 5.6% with a 742 beacon. My bank gave me 2.8%.
2017 Lariat Ultimate
$71,550 sticker
Tax, title, destination basically negated the $2250 in rebates. I negotiated $25,000 for my 2014 F150. Financed $37.000 even.
So $62000 otd from 71,550.
I used Ford credit to get the rebate. Went to my bank a few weeks later to refi. Frod gave me 5.6% with a 742 beacon. My bank gave me 2.8%.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,655
Likes: 21
From: Western MA
I'm not entirely sure what some folks in this thread are trying to accomplish here. Let me explain a few things to help the OP and dispel a few myths....
Tiger275, not knowing the VIN of the truck you're looking at, I'm taking everything at face value on the price of the truck right at or very near $80,000 as stated in your post. If that's the case and based on that invoice and holdback amount quoted, what the dealer is telling you is absolutely correct.
Also correct is that the volume purchase incentives and various other incentives have gone away or changed significantly. There are still some out there, but a lot of different factors go into how they are calculated, and oftentimes dealers don't actually know until the month is complete, as some incentives are based on unit sales for the month. A dealer isn't going to get into that when selling a vehicle.
Even better is that whoever sent you that email is being honest that anything you buy in financing is up to you and that he or she isn't trying to entice you to purchase anything extra to help them increase their profits. That's probably the most honest and straightforward dealer emails I've ever seen. That person pretty much just laid all their cards on the table and told you to come get it at the very best possible price.
If a dealer is splitting or even giving all the holdback, that is an OUTSTANDING DEAL no matter what anyone else here is trying to tell you. If that's the truck you want - RUN, don't walk - to the dealer.
For others in this thread, something to consider:
Dealers still get some incentives, but that's not a number that is handy to the sales managers so they can't really attach that figure to a quote anyway. There are many factors that go into how much a dealer ends up receiving in total incentives. Furthermore, why does a customer think they are entitled to that money anyway? Try operating a business where you sell all your products at $0 profit and see how long your doors remain open and you can pay your employees.
A customer's only real chance of getting a vehicle under holdback is an old-age unit that a dealer is just trying to get rid of and is willing to take a loss, or if it's the last day of the month and they are a unit or two away from hitting bonus payouts. Again a dealer won't factor in those incentives, they are just going to take a straight up loss to dump old inventory or to reach that goal for extra incentive paybacks. Anything else and every dealer out there will stop short of going under holdback.
Tiger275, not knowing the VIN of the truck you're looking at, I'm taking everything at face value on the price of the truck right at or very near $80,000 as stated in your post. If that's the case and based on that invoice and holdback amount quoted, what the dealer is telling you is absolutely correct.
Also correct is that the volume purchase incentives and various other incentives have gone away or changed significantly. There are still some out there, but a lot of different factors go into how they are calculated, and oftentimes dealers don't actually know until the month is complete, as some incentives are based on unit sales for the month. A dealer isn't going to get into that when selling a vehicle.
Even better is that whoever sent you that email is being honest that anything you buy in financing is up to you and that he or she isn't trying to entice you to purchase anything extra to help them increase their profits. That's probably the most honest and straightforward dealer emails I've ever seen. That person pretty much just laid all their cards on the table and told you to come get it at the very best possible price.
If a dealer is splitting or even giving all the holdback, that is an OUTSTANDING DEAL no matter what anyone else here is trying to tell you. If that's the truck you want - RUN, don't walk - to the dealer.
For others in this thread, something to consider:
Dealers still get some incentives, but that's not a number that is handy to the sales managers so they can't really attach that figure to a quote anyway. There are many factors that go into how much a dealer ends up receiving in total incentives. Furthermore, why does a customer think they are entitled to that money anyway? Try operating a business where you sell all your products at $0 profit and see how long your doors remain open and you can pay your employees.
A customer's only real chance of getting a vehicle under holdback is an old-age unit that a dealer is just trying to get rid of and is willing to take a loss, or if it's the last day of the month and they are a unit or two away from hitting bonus payouts. Again a dealer won't factor in those incentives, they are just going to take a straight up loss to dump old inventory or to reach that goal for extra incentive paybacks. Anything else and every dealer out there will stop short of going under holdback.
I got 13.5% off MSRP. I would suggest you ignore all the garbage "holdback" and "Rebate" mumbo jumbo which is designed to confuse buyers.
Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 69
Likes: 1
From: Fort Worth, TX
Just bought a new F-250 Lariat. MSRP was $70,400 and I got it for $11K off MSRP and $4K below invoice ( $66K) before incentives ($2750 including financing). This dealer was about $4K lower than all the other dealers in my area.
More Turbo
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 15
From: Durango, CO
Personally, I like shopping at a no haggle dealer like we have here in a Durango. There’s zero BS and a good relationship is maintained. Being a retail business owner myself, I wouldn’t feel good purchasing anything were the dealer didn’t make at least close to industry average profit, as long as I received great service. Nothing creates more animosity than when someone comes in our store and try’s to beat us down under what’s already priced fairly. I know some folks like haggling and the automotive sales industry created that in their business but it’s not for me.
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,133
Likes: 665
From: NH
Personally, I like shopping at a no haggle dealer like we have here in a Durango. There’s zero BS and a good relationship is maintained. Being a retail business owner myself, I wouldn’t feel good purchasing anything were the dealer didn’t make at least close to industry average profit, as long as I received great service. Nothing creates more animosity than when someone comes in our store and try’s to beat us down under what’s already priced fairly. I know some folks like haggling and the automotive sales industry created that in their business but it’s not for me.
Dealers are in business to make money. Larger dealerships with tons of inventory seem willing to sell on thinner margins...they may be receiving "volume rebates" from the manufacturer. Sometimes they also receive special programs from the manufacturer smaller dealers don't get.
I'm a business owner myself. I offer services rather than products for a certain price. If a customer refuses to pay the price I can either not provide the service or negotiate for a lower price, even if the original price was fair. It depends on how bad I want the work. That's capitalism, and I think its great.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now
Brett Foote
This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals
Joe Kucinski
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 294
From: SE Michigan
Far too many people think that buying a new vehicle means that they should work their hardest in order to screw the dealership out of every possible dollar they can. I'm all for negotiating a good deal, but some people take this far beyond reasonable.
While you most certainly don't have to pay MSRP, you can't expect to show up to buy an $80K vehicle and walk out with the dealership making $100. Overhead (facility), advertising, salaries, etc. - all that is not free and THAT is what the holdback covers (at least part of it).
And *shock* the dealership might actually expect to make a profit at some point.
I've bought 12 or 13 new vehicles in the past 10 or 11 years. All but two from the same dealership, and of those, all but 2 from the same salesman. They treat me fair because I treat them fair.
When I walked into the dealership back in 2006 to buy my first car from them (I had just moved to the area a few years earlier), I said up front, "I'm not here to buy a car. I'm here to start and build a relationship with a dealership so that I can feel comfortable buying MANY cars in the future."
And that's what I've done.
While you most certainly don't have to pay MSRP, you can't expect to show up to buy an $80K vehicle and walk out with the dealership making $100. Overhead (facility), advertising, salaries, etc. - all that is not free and THAT is what the holdback covers (at least part of it).
And *shock* the dealership might actually expect to make a profit at some point.
I've bought 12 or 13 new vehicles in the past 10 or 11 years. All but two from the same dealership, and of those, all but 2 from the same salesman. They treat me fair because I treat them fair.
When I walked into the dealership back in 2006 to buy my first car from them (I had just moved to the area a few years earlier), I said up front, "I'm not here to buy a car. I'm here to start and build a relationship with a dealership so that I can feel comfortable buying MANY cars in the future."
And that's what I've done.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 329
Likes: 2
I agree that the dealer giving the "I'm not making anything on this deal" sob story is a sad cliché but he will either sell it at your number or he won't. If you say "I will buy the truck at this price today." and they pass, then your best play is to walk away. Most often they will call you back....and then the ball is in your court.
Dealer I bought my SD from is a 1 price store...Invoice + Incentives....no DOC fees....take it or leave it. Could I have found a better price? Maybe, but lack of hassle and service bay 5 minutes from my house is worth a few bucks to me.
Using other people's "unicorn deal" stories as a basis for your purchase is not a solid strategy. As others have said, dealers make no real money on new car sales. Vast majority of their profit comes from the F&I office and the Service Bays.
Dealer I bought my SD from is a 1 price store...Invoice + Incentives....no DOC fees....take it or leave it. Could I have found a better price? Maybe, but lack of hassle and service bay 5 minutes from my house is worth a few bucks to me.
Using other people's "unicorn deal" stories as a basis for your purchase is not a solid strategy. As others have said, dealers make no real money on new car sales. Vast majority of their profit comes from the F&I office and the Service Bays.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 294
From: SE Michigan
Why not "beat down" a dealer? I think that goes without saying. Do you want good treatment and service AFTER you buy a vehicle from them? Do you want to buy just one vehicle, or do you want to build a relationship for future business?
If someone is a "slash and burn" type of person, by all means go right ahead and and do what they can to screw the dealer. I hope that the follow up and service the buyer receives from the dealership in in line with how the buyer conducted himself/herself during the purchase.
I'm a business owner myself. I offer services rather than products for a certain price. If a customer refuses to pay the price I can either not provide the service or negotiate for a lower price, even if the original price was fair. It depends on how bad I want the work. That's capitalism, and I think its great.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 294
From: SE Michigan
Holdback is there to compensate a dealership for costs associated with ordering, procuring, holding, advertising, and selling a vehicle, including overheads. If a dealership wants to move a vehicle it's had on it's lot for some time, they can sell it for what they paid for it and not lose money on it. They didn't MAKE money on it, but at least they didn't LOSE money on it. THAT is what holdback is "designed for".
And if you're confused by rebates, I don't know what to tell you. Negotiate your best deal, then the rebates are come off of that. Simple concept, really.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 294
From: SE Michigan
Using other people's "unicorn deal" stories as a basis for your purchase is not a solid strategy.
As others have said, dealers make no real money on new car sales. Vast majority of their profit comes from the F&I office and the Service Bays.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 329
Likes: 2
Best salesmen generally get to work the Used side because the margins are typically better so they can make more commission. I think you'd be surprised how much the average dealership makes in the F&I office. The majority of buyers do not have great credit and dealers, routinely mark the interest rate up and pocket the difference. Plus, there is a reason they hard-sell extended warranties and service plans.....profit.