to jeb and sinister73, as i have said previously, this is a ford entusiasts website. if you do not want to hear from people who are ford biased, you are out of luck. and bleive me, WE ALL know that you are sick of it, but what else would you expect when you are on , i say yet again, a ford enthusiasts website.

 

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Reasonably intelligent comparisions based on facts - not emotions based on brand biased blindness, it may be too much to expect, but I'll keep working on getting it. I want ford to put out the best product they possibly can.
We all deserve that. Disagreement is fine, maybe someone here can stress a point to me which might make me a believer - so far that has not happened, but there is no chance at all that it will ever happen if I were to sit here and simply play kiss up to the choir - that's a pure waste of time.

I am VERY excited about the release of the upcoming 2005' models. These trucks should be the best Ford has ever had to date! Have you heard some of the rumors going around? The Super Duty is supposed to get a new max GCWR of 33,000 LBS!! I am hoping that this new rating applies to the SD pickups as opposed to just the 450/550 chassis. 3 valve 5.4L and V10 offer lots to look foward to as well. Four wheel drive models will have the best handling, articulation, and turning radius of any 4x4's in Ford's entire history.
Stronger frames, axles, and brakes are all included in the new model as well.
GVWR's are going up. The interior is getting a redesign. There will be a few package changes. I'm HOPING for a Quad Cab type deal as well - I like the idea of an extended cab truck with four foward opening doors - I'm not personally crazy about the Crew Cab or Super Crew options. I hear a bunch of crybaby's whining about their precious front leaves becoming a thing of the past, and I can't help but wonder myself, 'What are the thinking?!'
These should be the best Ford trucks yet. And then there's the 6.0...

Ford has alot going on. I still like the Cummins motor most. If the 6.0L was up to par, it would still be a good thing however. But it is not. And I won't pretend that that's OK with me - it's not. A diesel / 6 speed should have plenty down low, but this combination does not. Then there are all the problems that people continue to have with this motor. I would not buy a
6.0 even with the new GCWR and all the other improvements. This motor needs to be worked out, and time will tell. Until then it can not be considered
along with the Cummins IMO.

If I end up with a gas powered truck next year , it will be the new SD with 3 valve V10. And even if I owned this new fine rig, I would still consider the Cummins the number one diesel going. I feel Dodge makes a good truck - not quite as good, but plenty good enough to be willing to buy one to get a Cummins if I do get a diesel. I guess I don't seem reasonable to alot of Ford owners because of my convictions, but at least I can see past one brand well enough to know that what the other guy has is better - and at least for right now, it is.

 

Very well said, as usual. Being an enthusiast should not blind you to the problems a particular motor or vehicle is having. Ford cares only about one thing, making money. I don't understand why folks defend them, or any other brand, as if the company had our best interest at heart. They only care about customer service and quality as far as they have to to compete, just like the other companies do. If the customers don't hold them to higher standards by voting with their wallets, they will be able to get by with less than a good effort.

 

I obviously can not speak for everyone, but I dont think that the Ford loyalists on this forum are blind to problems. We all can, after all, read and have adequate knowledge of how to use the internet. Being loyal to a particular brand of truck does not imply that a particular person completely disregards any and all fact about the product in question. What is does imply, is that particlar person will be more leniant with the product. That particular person will be optimistic about the product. That particular person will maintain their faith in the product, even when the product is not at is highest potential. I do not wish to insert words into your mouth, Jeb but it seems to me that you equate being loyal to a brand as being ignorant--this is most certainly not true. I fail to see any problem with being loyal to Ford trucks. Irrespective of the issues with Powerstroke at present time, there are millions of ford trucks on the road everyday providing good servce. Yet, you seem to think that because a small, small fraction of the trucks have problems we should turn our backs against the company now. Are you familiar with the term "fair weather friend"? I do not consider myself one in any respect. While it may seem silly to consider a truck as a "friend", that is what enthusiasts/loyalists do. After all, if not for such enthusiasts/loyalists, we would not have this wonderful site on which to conduct these vastly entertaining discussions. As I am sure you will reply to my statements here, I wish to ask you a direct question: Can you explain to me why it is such a bad thing to be loyal?

 

There's nothing wrong with being loyal to a friend, family member, etc. But I think that loyalty is misplaced when you're giving it a company that really isn't doing anything but taking your money. Do you think Ford really cares about you beyond your wallet? If so, that's a nice notion and all but not very realistic these days. Your local dealer might have your best interest at heart, to a point, and that's another important consideration when you purchase a vehicle.

I never said anything about turning your back on Ford. All I am saying is that you owe it to yourself to see what else is out there. If you can do that with an un-biased eye and make the decision based on the best value for your money, you're a better consumer. I've bought new ford, toyota, subaru, GMC, Caddy and Chevy in the last 6 or so years. All good trucks. But the motor in my Ex is not worth having, in my experience.

Now you tell me, what's wrong with shopping around and NOT being brand loyal?

 

Jeb, I see where you are coming from with the idea of looking at all brands equally but you remind me so much of my brother I could puke. His 6.0 was the best truck in the world till it started it's smoking problem. Then he went on I don't know how many different forums blowing the problems he was having with his truck way way out of proportion and slamming that motor into the ground. Just because your 6.0 is a lemon doesn't mean that they all are. Sure your's sucks, my brother's the computer programming is messed up in to no end. But T.D builders 1/4 mile away, he has a F-550 crew cab 4x4 6.0 utility truck and it has 15,000 trouble free miles. Dan (friend of the family) has 8400 trouble free miles. I know these aren't huge numbers like my dads old '97 7.3, we sold it with 186,000 trouble free except one set of glow plugs miles, but the trucks are still less than a year old. I am not saying it's trouble free or the best motor out there, which I would stand behind the cummins on that for a new truck, but when they run good there is no stopping those things.

Now I don't know if it's you or sinister73 that keeps rambling on about no low end with a stick, one I told the world how to solve that problem. EGR REMOVAL! but people out there will live with no low end. Look at the old 2-Stroke Detroits, lot's of people bought piles of those things from our old friend the General and lot's of old timers say those are the best motors ever made, but those had no low end, does that mean those are junk too?

 

joe,
I never said they were all bad. I understand that mine is one of the bad ones. But the key to me is it's one of the many, many bad ones. We're not talking about a few motors here. This is a huge problem by any objective standard. I HOPE most folks don't have all the problems these motors are well known for. But way, way too many of us do.

I also never said this was the best motor in the world. I've been a little un-impressed with the performance from the start compared to my 01 dmax/allison and it's just gotten worse since the turbo change. It wasn't as fun to drive but I was learning to live with it before it really went bad. I sure didn't WANT to have this happen when I traded a bullet proof dmax on this $52k truck.

I have no idea how a stick runs behind this motor. I don't think the Excursion is available that way. Are you saying they're even weaker yet? As far as disconnecting or bypassing things to make this truck run decent, no, I don't think so. It's Ford's problem to get this running right, not mine.

 

I don't get a chance to read these things often so sometimes I skip over parts, at least you admit that not all of them are bad. Some people you talk to say that every one of them should be sent back to the scrap heap in which they came. I feel sorry for every one that gets one that is a lemon because when they run good, there is no stopping them. But unfortuinately quite a few of them suck, but you already know that because you are living it first hand.

As far as putting a stick behind it I believe your right, you can't get one in an excursion. But for a little insight if you are below 1500 rpm or so you might as well get out and push the truck because you could make it go faster. They have something wrong with the programming and man is that thing a dog. But so far, at least on the one's that we've seen, it's just a programming issue as compared to the '03 which had it's own set of never ending issues.

As far as fixing your truck and it being ford's problem, we are pretty confident that some day they will come out with flash #25866844.. rounded, that will finally fix the stupid EGR problem but till then it's not hurting anything by running it with it unplugged so till then it's not going be be plugged in. When that flash finally comes around the guy that worked on my brothers truck and hinted at unplugging it in the first place will call us, it will get re-flashed, and hopefully after that live will be good again. But till then, I would rather have low end power and better fuel economy than just saying "It's their problem" because, he has to drive that truck every day, not the idiots that designed that motor so to make it easier on himself, it's staying unplugged.

 

I'm pretty sure the 6.0L problems are not as big as the low mileage knocking and smoking problems with all of the GM gas engines, the 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, and 8.1, and even some of the old 5.0 and 5.7's. There's a lawsuit over them right now.

Not to mention the overheating problems with the new I-4 and I-5's in the Colorado/Canyon twins.

Also GM issued a recall 2 weeks ago over tailgates falling off which affects over 1 million GM trucks.

You call the 6.0L problems big?

 

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The 6.0 PSD problems are still big enough for me that I would avoid one.

I agree about GM's gasoline motors. Some of them have terrible CSK issues.
GM is supposed to have this fixed as of now - but I would still wait to purchase one for awhile. I like the performance of GM's motors - they make good low end, and will rev high and fast AND keep making more. This in itself
is not enough for me to take a chance on buying one with CSK, and then being told it's "normal". I've got better things to do with my time than to waste it with GM fighting them on the issue.

When it comes to gasoline motors - I like silence. My Ford motors have always been very silent.

A preventative tailgate fix cannot be compared to the issues the 6.0 has had.

Just as I would wait to see if GM truly has CSK under control, I would wait to see what Ford is doing with the 6.0 PSD before I'd even consider it. I am not the type of person who could tolerate big problems like CSK or burned turbo's with a new truck. Also if I ever bought a Ford diesel - it would HAVE to be with manual transmission, no if's, and's, or but's about it. Due to the programming Ford chose to stick this motor with, the manual transmission has no low end. I do not see the use in calling LOW a granny gear if the truck must be started in LOW empty on a steep hill.

I would never buy an F150 for the reason that there's no manual option. Besides this only certain trims even appeal to me. Besides this, I would want nothing to do with a vibrating wreck that Ford calls "normal" and says cannot be fixed.

The only two trucks that I would buy as of right now are;

1.) Super Duty 250 / 350 SRW with either 5.4L or preferrably V10 motor.
2.) Dodge Ram full sized models - 1500 / 2500 / 3500 SRW. (3/4 ton w Cummins, half ton with 4.7 - no manual transmission HEMI as yet)

While niether of these two above mentioned trucks are completely problem free, both seem to have much fewer issues than the others. The Super Duty looks superb, and while I hated the new Dodge front end when it debued, it looks so good to me now - that second generations look cheap compared to it IMO.

GM has a strong truck IMO - I love those frames - but the CSK reputation would keep me away for awhile. The Duramax is a good motor, but when I can get a Cummins Dodge with solid front axle for less money - why bother?
The 6.0 needs time before I would trust it. The F150 is impressive but no manual means no sale.

All this IMO.

 

As there will likely be over the 6.0PSD at some point.

Yes, obviously, I do. Before this truck, I owned a string of Chevy, ford, caddy or GMC trucks/SUV's going back into the 80's. We even had an RV with the 8.1 Vortec/allison. I had to replace an intake manifold gasket on one suburban 350 that had 110k on it. On my 99 3/4 ton 'burb, they had to fix a front differential leak under warranty. That it for the GM's problems. The Explorer's we had were pretty good trucks to but the first lost it's AC just after the extended warranty expired.

Our 6.0 has been by far the most troublesome truck we've owned. To me, this is fords rendition of the 350 GM diesel. They still don't even have pilot injection figured out on it! I knew going in this motor was a first year motor with some problems. I make sure I got one with the new injectors where were suppose to be the big cureall, according to the forums. NOT. If I had any idea this truck would be half as bad or disappointing has it has been, I'd have never bought it. But that's hindsight and we all know that's 20/20.

I hope ford eventually gets this motor figured out but, IMO, they are not there yet.

 

There is nothing wrong with it...as long as you are not a Ford enthusiast. I happen to be, as are many other people here. My only point is that just becasue I am loyal to Ford does not mean that I am ignorant to their problems or to the fact that they are just a company out to make money. And I personally feel rather insulted when I am made out to be ignorant and blind just becasue I, heaven forbid, show a shred of loyalty to something, whether it be a truck or not. As I said in my last post, if not for those of us who are loyal to Ford, this website wouldn't even be here. I am not criticising your choice to look at other brands, I am simply defending my position as a person who is strong in their conviction towards Ford Motor Company. IMMHO

Besides, how much fun would it be if everybody just said "oh he's talkin bout Ford again, who care's?" Fundamentalists make the world go round. I even laugh at myself sometimes, but I can't help it. For whatever reason, I am loyal to Ford. You dont have to be, I would just appreciate not being judged for it.

And as always, no hard feelings.

 

As long as you realize you're being loyal to something that is only interested in your wallet, I guess there's nothing wrong with it. Some folks tend to think that one brand actually has their personal best interest at heart or something. These are all modern companies that really only care about "stockholder value". That IS the bottom line as it drives the executive salaries and they drive the companies.

That all means that they are trying hard to make a good product but sometimes it's more marketing than reality.

Also, I don't think I can't be both, say, a Ford and GM enthusiast. Is there some rule that says you can't be an enthusiast for more than one brand?

 

Hey...the choice is yours my man. Im not here to judge---just as long as you leave ford alone!!! LOL

You know what they say about the green stuff..it makes the world go round (and women really happy). Gotta love good ol American business!!

 

if you think there are no problems with the 6.0 PS just read this thread in the 6.0 Power Stroke Forum

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...d.php?t=185570

28 pages of problems


The 6.0 had so many problems it was in the news. The Duramax and Cummins were not.