Looks like I've been summoned.... lol

For the pro tuners out there, hybrids aren't really anything special to tune. Hybrids are very forgiving on oil which makes that aspect easier when running a stock HPOP. Typically don't have to worry about throwing an ICP code and usually can rely on getting the oil pressure you want when you want. That goes a long way in having tunes that fuel correctly throughout the RPM range and under any load.

One thing I'd point out is 30% nozzles would be a waste IMO. Go with 80%, they are just as easy to tune and you'll get better results when tuned correctly. I've tuned 30% nozzles in the past and never was impressed with them, as they always needed about the same pulsewidth as a stock nozzle and usually had EGT spikes on hotter tunes due to the longer pulsewidth. 80% nozzles give you more freedom to push more fuel in less time and keep the pulsewidth down, but are still small enough to easily tame and have perfect stock manners with little effort on the part of the tuner.

Talk to the reputable tuners out there and get their feedback on Rosewood injectors. You'll quickly find out who likes tuning them and who doesn't. If you're dead set on Rosewoods, then go with the tuner that likes them because that means they consistently have success. I often hear good things about Rosewoods, so I doubt you'll find too much opposition from many tuners. Never tuned them myself that I can recall, so I don't have any personal experience with that particular brand to share.

I don't tune anymore so I'm not throwing my hat into the ring. But at the very least I hope this helps.

 

Studded, yes, but I believe the plenums are stock.

This is my truck with 200/80s and a 364.5, overdrive with 3.73s and 35s. I had to roll into it slowly to keep it from downshifting. This video isn't as clear, but boost peaked at 33 and EGTs were just under 1200. Pay no attention to the window tint, it's on my list.

 

Thanks for popping in Curtis....

 

Thank you for responding to my request and with the information

I don't have anything against 80% for sure, just didn't see them on their site


I don't have a tuner at this point, still looking and waiting. It stinks to go into the weekend without having something moving along, but I am not going to move on the injectors until I have something setup with a tuner...

 

why not stick with the proven 160/0 (stage 1) no egt issue, great power, nothing will break, and best of all it doesn't require to have a bigger out put hpop. Just my .02

 

I understand the argument to stay stock, but that isn't my goal

It doesn't make sense to me to spend the same (or pretty close) money to get average or okay when "better" is an option within close reach.

An overly simple way to put it, but that pretty much sums up my "why"

 

No choice as far as I can see....

160/80% DONE.

 

This is from the other thread so I brought it over to consolidate.

Pocket has weighed in and you have his advice as a former 7.3L enthusiast and as a tuner. Cody (cleatus12r) will be in the tuning business soon and his tuning is spot on the first time. I am almost positive that he will give you the same advice that Pocket did.

The problem with taking advice from some tuners is that they will give you advice that is correct, incorrect, or somewhere in between obviously. Then, their ability to tune comes into play. All tunes are not created equally. Some tuners will give you advice based upon what THEY, as a tuner, can easily write tunes for which can be equated to ABILITY. Many will choose and advise you based upon what is easiest for them: fewer emails, tunes exchanged, phone calls, complaints, etc = time = money for them. So, in summary, is the advice that you are given biased by ABILITY?

As an example, the '99 truck has run tunes from Jody of DP, Tony, Swamps, Matt of Gearhead, Brian of BTS, and now Cody. They are listed in the specific order that I ran them. I did't leave one and go to another without good reason: tuning is more than injectors alone. I wish I had had the opportunity to run tunes from Cody first. One of those tuners all but gave up and told me I needed "live" tuning which would have cost an additional $400-600. WHY? Why did I need live tuning when the very next tuner on the list sent way better tunes in the very next email for the same exact setup, nearly stock, on the same day. I ran them on a borrowed HYDRA. Rich (Tugly) and several others were very helpful in assisting me with that change.

Cody and Pocket have both stated in numerous threads that 30% nozzles are a waste and don't gain much over stock nozzles. Excellent advice from guys who have built more usable HP and total HP than most people on this forum, myself included. Going from "140's" to 200's is simply an increase of fuel volume (CC's) per time = 1000 injection events. The only way to do that is to increase FIPW and possibly ICP with stock nozzles. Long FIPW = high EGT's and low ICP. Stock HPOP will be fine if FIPW is kept in check.

Info on why: The relation between Injection Pulsewidth and Loss of ICP - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum

Think about trying to push 200 gallons of water (volume) through a hose (nozzle) that is rated for 150-160 optimally. The only thing that can assist in increasing volume is more pressure (ICP) at which point you reach a point of diminishing returns and tons of extra stress on components: pump, sensors, hoses, pistons (as in intensifier in the injector), nozzles, and etc with no positive gain.

The '99 had stock injectors in it when I purchased it. I then went to 160/30's which is less fuel volume = (less potential heat) and the same nozzles that you are considering and had an EGT problem when towing in the mountains above 20k total combined. The rest of the truck was healthy. I then installed loaner 160/0's while I waited on the injectors I have now using the same tunes which proves Pocket and cleatus12r to be correct. EGT's were a tad higher.

Moving forward to today, the 175's have a great deal more power (more fuel and potential heat) when compared to the 160/0's/30's and far lower EGT's simply due to the addition of 80% nozzles...around 200* less conservatively due to decreased pulse width (FIPW)..about 1/3 less. Cody's tuning reduced that an additional 75-100* which is a total reduction of nearly 300*s. I am stoked.

Next, when I modify the '01, I'll follow the advice of Pocket and cleatus12r and probably purchase 200/80's or 238/80's. I would never go back to stock or 30% nozzles.

So, you are correct. Choosing the correct tuner is of paramount importance. If a tuner strongly advises you to stay with 30% nozzles you should be armed with the esoteric information as to why now.

If a single vendor is only selling 30% nozzles, I would seriously question why and get rid of that limitation.

 

I have a set of Rosewood 250/200% injectors on my personal daily driver. Jim can put any nozzle on any injector, you just have to specify. Realistically, the 200cc injector is the same thing....specify 30%, 80%, 100% (meh), or 200%. However, I suggest staying away from 200% nozzles unless you want to pay for a lot of live tuning or just deal with some driveability issues. Back when I was working for PHP, we were writing tunes for Jim when he was putting 80% nozzles on stock AA injectors (yes, 90-ish cc injectors). At the time, I thought it was stupid but the more I've been around that kind of thing, the more it makes sense, especially with the non-intercooled 95-97 pickups.

I'll be doing that to my 1995 when I pull the engine for a pan reseal.

 

Words of wisdom here in my opinion. There is a reason why people choose 160/80 time and time again.

I wish you the best of luck in your decision, just take your time and sleep on it before pressing the buy button.

 

Thanks, guys, for the information

I had hoped to get some enthusiasm for the hybrids, but it doesn't seem to be happening, so back to the original 160/80's

But now we have the weekend to figure things out before I can ship them off.

 

Good enough for me, thanks!

 

Hybrids have their place and they're no more difficult to "tune" than A-codes, but they aren't perfect. A-codes are much easier to deal with on a per-truck basis (yes, less work in rewrites for the guy doing the tuning) when live tuning isn't available. They're less finicky in the cold and they are.....well...."crisper".

Oil usage is (or damn well should be by now) a non-issue for all the hybrid cheerleaders at this point. However, there are those people like me who found the limit of the stock oil system at 404 RWHP with 160/100% injectors on an otherwise completely stock 260K+ mile pickup and I went to hybrids and 200% nozzles and was able to coax another 109 RWHP out of it before serious oil AND fuel shortages forced me to quit going. I NEVER use the power though (one day of flogging was enough). The calibration that I run (yes, just one) should be in the 360-380 RWHP range and it's all I need. I'd trade off these 200% nozzles in a heartbeat if money wasn't an issue. They run well, but for the way I drive, I certainly don't need the quirks and the inconsistency. They run great one day (or hour, or minute) and they're finicky, rough, and basically all over the place the next.

 

Thank you for that clear explanation. If 160/80's will get me there and are less affected by the cold (I never thought about that!), then they seem like the clear winner!

Any reason or benefit to 100%? I haven't ordered anything yet and would rather leave power/capabilities in reserve than be boxed in by hitting the ceiling

I appreciate all the input from everyone!

 

No.

100% is a crap shoot. I've tuned 2 trucks with them. One came out fine, the other couldn't be tuned by anyone.

There's been discussions about theories as to why that is.