Blue Smoke Fuel Side
#1
07-16-2017, 02:16 PM
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Blue Smoke Fuel Side
Ok I purchased a 94 Ford F250 with the 7.3 Turbo IDI
It smoked bad when I purchased the truck. So I just got down installing all 8 injectors. and I advanced the trimming and had to advanced it to the point. of the solenoid for cold high idle is just barely touching the coolant return line.
And when you hit the peddle hard and let off quick. it will be black but with a light bit of blue smoke. but if I hold the throttle to the floor. it will roll the blue smoke.
Plz note that there is some old fuel left in the tank trying to get it all out.
now this is also just sitting in one place. Don't have tag's on it yet working on getting her running right. before I hit the road with her.
Thanks guys I a m in ky if anyone around that might could help. Thanks
It smoked bad when I purchased the truck. So I just got down installing all 8 injectors. and I advanced the trimming and had to advanced it to the point. of the solenoid for cold high idle is just barely touching the coolant return line.
And when you hit the peddle hard and let off quick. it will be black but with a light bit of blue smoke. but if I hold the throttle to the floor. it will roll the blue smoke.
Plz note that there is some old fuel left in the tank trying to get it all out.
now this is also just sitting in one place. Don't have tag's on it yet working on getting her running right. before I hit the road with her.
Thanks guys I a m in ky if anyone around that might could help. Thanks
#2
07-16-2017, 05:32 PM
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update
Before I purchased the truck the owner I got it from said they have been messing with it etc... so I get to play the fix game. but.....
I just came in from adjusting the fuel down one flack and still no joy. the smoke is not as bad. no were near as bad but its still there.
I haven't noticed any low oil or coolant. but I have noticed a little oil around the main intake fan on the turbo. Could it Just be that oil is leaking in the turbo witch is getting in the intake. and that's why I see the smoke. but then again if I turned the fuel down that wouldn't let the smoke not as bad. I'm so puzzled right now. I don't know were to begin. Should I start with the IP. and then if that don't work rebuild the turbo. I have 288K on motor. and it looks as she has been driven hard and put away wet a few times. Thanks
I just came in from adjusting the fuel down one flack and still no joy. the smoke is not as bad. no were near as bad but its still there.
I haven't noticed any low oil or coolant. but I have noticed a little oil around the main intake fan on the turbo. Could it Just be that oil is leaking in the turbo witch is getting in the intake. and that's why I see the smoke. but then again if I turned the fuel down that wouldn't let the smoke not as bad. I'm so puzzled right now. I don't know were to begin. Should I start with the IP. and then if that don't work rebuild the turbo. I have 288K on motor. and it looks as she has been driven hard and put away wet a few times. Thanks
#3
07-16-2017, 08:06 PM
You are still retarded.
You need to give it quite a bit of advance thanks to adding new injectors which are higher pop-pressure than the old ones.
You'll either have to replace the IP or lift the IP gear housing and "skip it a tooth" - make the IP gear more advanced by 1 tooth compared to the cam gear.
(effectively, this adds about 6-7 degrees of advance. You can then retard it as needed by adjusting the IP by rotating it, as you have been doing)
You need to give it quite a bit of advance thanks to adding new injectors which are higher pop-pressure than the old ones.
You'll either have to replace the IP or lift the IP gear housing and "skip it a tooth" - make the IP gear more advanced by 1 tooth compared to the cam gear.
(effectively, this adds about 6-7 degrees of advance. You can then retard it as needed by adjusting the IP by rotating it, as you have been doing)
#6
07-17-2017, 05:35 PM
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You are still retarded.
You need to give it quite a bit of advance thanks to adding new injectors which are higher pop-pressure than the old ones.
You'll either have to replace the IP or lift the IP gear housing and "skip it a tooth" - make the IP gear more advanced by 1 tooth compared to the cam gear.
(effectively, this adds about 6-7 degrees of advance. You can then retard it as needed by adjusting the IP by rotating it, as you have been doing)
You need to give it quite a bit of advance thanks to adding new injectors which are higher pop-pressure than the old ones.
You'll either have to replace the IP or lift the IP gear housing and "skip it a tooth" - make the IP gear more advanced by 1 tooth compared to the cam gear.
(effectively, this adds about 6-7 degrees of advance. You can then retard it as needed by adjusting the IP by rotating it, as you have been doing)
Well I thank you for your tip. But I do have to ask you talk to every one like that? Was "You are still retarded. " really needed? I was just asking for tips that's all.
#7
07-17-2017, 06:17 PM
-he meant your timing is still retarded not you personally. We dont slam on people. You have to remember you are getting advise from gearheads.
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#8
07-17-2017, 07:19 PM
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omg I'm So sorry... And was thinking about what he was saying. and I have it way advanced the pump has a good lean to the passenger side.
Now how would I go about advancing the IP Gear?
I have been looking around online. Is it something along the line of removing the IP and the IP Gear Cover. and then move it one tooth?
Not many things online about that kind of thing.
But also just an idea seeing how its smoking at full throttle. It is a sign that the IP is not going bad?
Now how would I go about advancing the IP Gear?
I have been looking around online. Is it something along the line of removing the IP and the IP Gear Cover. and then move it one tooth?
Not many things online about that kind of thing.
But also just an idea seeing how its smoking at full throttle. It is a sign that the IP is not going bad?
#9
07-17-2017, 08:24 PM
It overfueling. Pulling the cover is the last thing you want to do. Do a Search on replacing the IP.
There is a lot of knowledge in this forum. The trucks are a differant breed all there own. Do not listen to the powerstoke guys. About the only thing they have in common with an idi is eng size
There is a lot of knowledge in this forum. The trucks are a differant breed all there own. Do not listen to the powerstoke guys. About the only thing they have in common with an idi is eng size
#11
07-17-2017, 09:34 PM
You have to get the timing right for optimal fuel burn; if you are timed retarded, the fuel charge will be too late and it won't have time enough to actually fully burn, resulting in more smoke from the same amount of fuel.
It also results in higher EGTs, as the fuel can still be burning as it's going out the exhaust.
This is why it's critical to get the timing as close as you can /first/, then adjust the fuel screw once you've gotten that dialed in or you'll lose out on power.
In your case, part of the problem is that you replaced the injectors and not the IP at the same time. The IP, as it wears, becomes retarded. The injectors wear along with it, though, which tends to only /slightly/ retard the timing over time.
The new injectors are, well, new and have a high pop pressure. This means the IP has to work extra hard to get them to open, especially as it's worn.
So, you simply need to advance the timing more. But the IP's already been rotated as far as you can... so you have to compensate with something else.
Here's the procedure, as I wrote up for someone else:
It also results in higher EGTs, as the fuel can still be burning as it's going out the exhaust.
This is why it's critical to get the timing as close as you can /first/, then adjust the fuel screw once you've gotten that dialed in or you'll lose out on power.
In your case, part of the problem is that you replaced the injectors and not the IP at the same time. The IP, as it wears, becomes retarded. The injectors wear along with it, though, which tends to only /slightly/ retard the timing over time.
The new injectors are, well, new and have a high pop pressure. This means the IP has to work extra hard to get them to open, especially as it's worn.
So, you simply need to advance the timing more. But the IP's already been rotated as far as you can... so you have to compensate with something else.
Here's the procedure, as I wrote up for someone else:
1. Remove the inspection cover at the front of the IP gear housing. This will let you see the 3 bolts and stud that hold the IP to the gear.
2. Clean this area really well, getting all the grease off of it.
3. Rotate the engine to a known point - I'd use the timing mark on the crank to rotate it to TDC. It doesn't matter the position, just that you can get back to it of needed.
4. Using a sharpie(a chisel would be better - permanent mark), mark a line on the housing and face of the IP gear, so you have a reference mark. When we rotate the gear, it will move but the housing marks won't, so you'll be able to see how far you went.
5. Remove all 4 bolts holding the IP gear housing to the block
6. Using a small prybar, lever up on the IP gear housing to break the seal. We need to get it up just enough for the IP gear to clear the cam gear. No more than about 1/2".
7. While holding the gear cover up, try to rotate the IP gear by hand, just a little. You only want it to skip one tooth.
When looking at the front of the engine, the IP gear goes clockwise to advance it(top of IP gear towards driver's side, which is opposite how you would rotate the IP).
8. When you think you've got it(and it might take several tries to get it only one tooth over - you are trying to feel the gears as you have them just out of mesh), tighten down the 4 bolts on the IP gear housing again and fire it up.
If it feels like you went too far, rotate the engine back to the known point(where all your marks line up again) and try adjusting it again. It's not that hard, and you have the reference marks to keep you close. One tooth is going to be perhaps the width of a normal sharpie line at the edge of the cam gear that you see through the insepection cover - you don't have to go far.
If you got it right, it should be a bit clattery when running. It should be noticably too advanced.
You will then loosen the IP bolts and "retard" the IP by rotating it back towards the driver's side a but until you get something that sounds reasonable. Tighten it back up, reinstall the inspection cover, and test it out.
You will then want to play with the timing a bit - try it a bit retarded from where you have it, and a bit advanced. See what 'feels' better.
If you see white/gray smoke on heavy acceleration(vs black), you are too retarded. If it clatters a huge amount, you are too advanced.
You'll also want to make sure to do your timing/power tests once the engine has warmed up and the cold advance has turned off - that advances it another few degrees.
In my opinion, doing this will get you a very reasonable timing job. No, it might not be book-perfect, but it will run well, and get decent fuel mileage and power.
(Typically, where you make the most power in an IDI is also where you get the best fuel economy, because the engine is "fighting itself" less, using less fuel to make the same output)
2. Clean this area really well, getting all the grease off of it.
3. Rotate the engine to a known point - I'd use the timing mark on the crank to rotate it to TDC. It doesn't matter the position, just that you can get back to it of needed.
4. Using a sharpie(a chisel would be better - permanent mark), mark a line on the housing and face of the IP gear, so you have a reference mark. When we rotate the gear, it will move but the housing marks won't, so you'll be able to see how far you went.
5. Remove all 4 bolts holding the IP gear housing to the block
6. Using a small prybar, lever up on the IP gear housing to break the seal. We need to get it up just enough for the IP gear to clear the cam gear. No more than about 1/2".
7. While holding the gear cover up, try to rotate the IP gear by hand, just a little. You only want it to skip one tooth.
When looking at the front of the engine, the IP gear goes clockwise to advance it(top of IP gear towards driver's side, which is opposite how you would rotate the IP).
8. When you think you've got it(and it might take several tries to get it only one tooth over - you are trying to feel the gears as you have them just out of mesh), tighten down the 4 bolts on the IP gear housing again and fire it up.
If it feels like you went too far, rotate the engine back to the known point(where all your marks line up again) and try adjusting it again. It's not that hard, and you have the reference marks to keep you close. One tooth is going to be perhaps the width of a normal sharpie line at the edge of the cam gear that you see through the insepection cover - you don't have to go far.
If you got it right, it should be a bit clattery when running. It should be noticably too advanced.
You will then loosen the IP bolts and "retard" the IP by rotating it back towards the driver's side a but until you get something that sounds reasonable. Tighten it back up, reinstall the inspection cover, and test it out.
You will then want to play with the timing a bit - try it a bit retarded from where you have it, and a bit advanced. See what 'feels' better.
If you see white/gray smoke on heavy acceleration(vs black), you are too retarded. If it clatters a huge amount, you are too advanced.
You'll also want to make sure to do your timing/power tests once the engine has warmed up and the cold advance has turned off - that advances it another few degrees.
In my opinion, doing this will get you a very reasonable timing job. No, it might not be book-perfect, but it will run well, and get decent fuel mileage and power.
(Typically, where you make the most power in an IDI is also where you get the best fuel economy, because the engine is "fighting itself" less, using less fuel to make the same output)
#12
07-18-2017, 06:34 PM
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Ok been following you list step by step. but in kind of a pickle. When I try to lift it up its like some of the fuel lines wont let it go up enough. Now is it I need to be trying to lift from the rear of the pump or from the front? because I have been trying from the front. and it don't clear. the gear it don't move. also is it stiff to were I may have to use a tool for it too turn or can you move it easily with your hand. Just wont to make sure. Thanks
#13
07-18-2017, 11:21 PM
I use a big screwdriver /short prybar to lift it. Yeah, it should be hard; the lines are pressing down on it.
And yes, you are only lifting the front... Just barely enough to get the gear to turn. You could try putting a ratchet on one of the 5/16 12-point IP gear bolts and use that for a bit of leverage, but be careful of jumping a bunch of teeth. This is what the marks are for, if you go too far.
And yes, you are only lifting the front... Just barely enough to get the gear to turn. You could try putting a ratchet on one of the 5/16 12-point IP gear bolts and use that for a bit of leverage, but be careful of jumping a bunch of teeth. This is what the marks are for, if you go too far.
#14
07-22-2017, 06:56 PM
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Ok I have purchased and started to install it. I have a question. When I installed to the 3 bolts on the fuel timing gear. the pump was stiff couldn't turn it any way. " This is still with out the 3 bolts tighten. but then when I started tighten the 3 bolts it mad like a pop and every thing fell in to place.
I have forgotten my keys at work. so I cant try it. was just trying to find out if its a normal kind of thing.
Or Did I break something I haven't re-moved any of the nuts to see if it will come out.
Thanks
I have forgotten my keys at work. so I cant try it. was just trying to find out if its a normal kind of thing.
Or Did I break something I haven't re-moved any of the nuts to see if it will come out.
Thanks