428 stroker is in the same county :-)
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
I posted my project update web link in te 67-72 forum but maybe some of the FE guys will miss it.
http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/69f25.../67project.htm
This project has definitely gone out of control. If it keeps up at this pace much longer, I'll be a broke bachelor.
http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/69f25.../67project.htm
This project has definitely gone out of control. If it keeps up at this pace much longer, I'll be a broke bachelor.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Here some pice of the short-block. Let me know what you gurus see:
http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/69f250/67f250/fe446.htm
Are there any peculiarities to installing the flex-plate , that center ring etc.? I noticed that no matter how I line up that center ring, the bolt holes are not all lined up. I'm sure the bolt will go through, because it was on the running 390. I think I got it, it looks like there is only one way that everything lines up, so it's impossible to get it wrong, right?
There is an "H" on the ring on the side that appears to have been facing out (has scrapings from bolt heads). Does this sound right?
I'm sure the flex plate only goes back on in one fashion, and that will probably be obvious when I try to install it. But just for grins, should the oval "Ford" insignia be facing the block or tranny?
thanks in advance. I'm sure I'll double my posts over the next few weeks.
http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/69f250/67f250/fe446.htm
Are there any peculiarities to installing the flex-plate , that center ring etc.? I noticed that no matter how I line up that center ring, the bolt holes are not all lined up. I'm sure the bolt will go through, because it was on the running 390. I think I got it, it looks like there is only one way that everything lines up, so it's impossible to get it wrong, right?
There is an "H" on the ring on the side that appears to have been facing out (has scrapings from bolt heads). Does this sound right?
I'm sure the flex plate only goes back on in one fashion, and that will probably be obvious when I try to install it. But just for grins, should the oval "Ford" insignia be facing the block or tranny?
thanks in advance. I'm sure I'll double my posts over the next few weeks.
Last edited by gtex; Aug 28, 2003 at 09:16 PM.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Already having trouble..
The timing gear is snug on the crank shaft and even tighter on the keys. I'm afraid that I'll get it on and never get it off. Anybody else had trouble with this?
The timing gear is snug on the crank shaft and even tighter on the keys. I'm afraid that I'll get it on and never get it off. Anybody else had trouble with this?
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
I may be talking out of turn, but that is not unusual for for that off brand (Chevy) or Ford small blocks. Not sure about FE's.
Try putting the gear in the oven (not to hot) and see if that lets it slide on.
Which rods are those?
Try putting the gear in the oven (not to hot) and see if that lets it slide on.
Which rods are those?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
They are officially stuck! To make it worse, I got the sleeve on backwards! I didn't thnk much about it, since I was just using the sleev to push the gear on. Now, the gear is almost in plce, the sleeve is backwards and stuck and I stripped the threads on the crank bolt.
This is going to be fun. Where's that cold beer?
Anybody have a good technique for pulling these gears/sleeves off? I may try to find some heat, but I'm worried about the crank.
This is going to be fun. Where's that cold beer?
Anybody have a good technique for pulling these gears/sleeves off? I may try to find some heat, but I'm worried about the crank.
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Senior User
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Run a tap down the hole and see it it takes a bite. I did the same thing on a jeep once. Got in a hurry and did not use the right tool to install the damper and stripped the threads out.I don't know why they use such a large bolt to hold the pulley on unless they are talking monemt loads out through the bolt. If the damper fits really snug this should not be a problem. Put some antiseize on the parts and the threads. If it goes in pretty easy remove the bolt and clean the threads and use some loctite if your worried about it coming loose.
Another fall back position could be to retap the thread to a coarse pitch which requires a little large hole diameter which you now have. This will give you a little more bite.
Another fall back position could be to retap the thread to a coarse pitch which requires a little large hole diameter which you now have. This will give you a little more bite.
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Ruh Roh.
Again I suggest judicious application of heat and a jaw type puller to remove the gear while protecting the repaired threads in the crank.
Hopefully the bolt is softer than the crank and you can chase the threads and replace the bolt. I defer to others judgement on that.
Again I suggest judicious application of heat and a jaw type puller to remove the gear while protecting the repaired threads in the crank.
Hopefully the bolt is softer than the crank and you can chase the threads and replace the bolt. I defer to others judgement on that.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
I'm not worried about the crank threads. I think it is definitely the harder material. the bolt may need soe rethreading or just some coaxing to go in.
My current prroblem is emoving the gear and spacer, since I got the spacer on backwards.
The real problem here is that SCAT made the crank snout a bit too thick. This is based on a tight fitting Edelbrock gear and a Ford spacer.
I've already designed a puller in my head, I just need someone that can work some 1" x 1/4" steel for me. I'll get it off.
It's just frustrating, that almost all projects go this way.
My current prroblem is emoving the gear and spacer, since I got the spacer on backwards.
The real problem here is that SCAT made the crank snout a bit too thick. This is based on a tight fitting Edelbrock gear and a Ford spacer.
I've already designed a puller in my head, I just need someone that can work some 1" x 1/4" steel for me. I'll get it off.
It's just frustrating, that almost all projects go this way.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
I managed to get th gear off using the tool I created below.
http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/69f25...nggeartool.htm
I think I have reached the next level of novice mechanic, creating or modifying tools to fit my needs.
the crank shaft looks lfine, and the sleeve seems to slide on easier than the gear. I'm heating the gear in the oven at 250F right now, hoping it will go easier. Then I have to find a solution for the slightly stripped threads on the crank bolt. Only the first threads were damaged, but I can't get the bolt to start straight.
http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/69f25...nggeartool.htm
I think I have reached the next level of novice mechanic, creating or modifying tools to fit my needs.
the crank shaft looks lfine, and the sleeve seems to slide on easier than the gear. I'm heating the gear in the oven at 250F right now, hoping it will go easier. Then I have to find a solution for the slightly stripped threads on the crank bolt. Only the first threads were damaged, but I can't get the bolt to start straight.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Cool,
You want to minimize the contact and try to seat it in one fluid motion fairly quickly as the crank will try to heat sink the heat away pretty quick.
(it goes without saying make sure everything is right, cause once it cools its going to be there, also as I'm sure you are aware, any pounding is a no-no as it can damage the thrust bearings.)
I have heated them to about 350 in an oven before. (Tends to irritate the estrogen in the house though, as it doesn't really smell like Pizza) that didn't cause me any problems (with the engine any way)
I would just replace the crank bolt, I am sure ARP will sell you a nice one.
FWIW
You want to minimize the contact and try to seat it in one fluid motion fairly quickly as the crank will try to heat sink the heat away pretty quick.
(it goes without saying make sure everything is right, cause once it cools its going to be there, also as I'm sure you are aware, any pounding is a no-no as it can damage the thrust bearings.)
I have heated them to about 350 in an oven before. (Tends to irritate the estrogen in the house though, as it doesn't really smell like Pizza) that didn't cause me any problems (with the engine any way)
I would just replace the crank bolt, I am sure ARP will sell you a nice one.
FWIW
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Well, I have a good method for removing and reistalling the timing gear now. Done it several times before I actually looked at my shop manual to figure out how the sleeve goes back on. Doh!
Anyway, the keys o the crank are slightly taller than before, hence the tight fitting. I've been heating the timing gear, icing down the crank snout and am able to push it on up to the second key, then I have to force it using the sleeve and crank bolt. All good, but to get the sleeve back off I have to pull on the timing gear. AHHHRRGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe I'll try heating the sleeve as well.
I could grind down the key a bit, but that sounds drastic and might put me out of balance, no?
If I have damaged the thrust bearings, what would be the symptoms?
Anyway, the keys o the crank are slightly taller than before, hence the tight fitting. I've been heating the timing gear, icing down the crank snout and am able to push it on up to the second key, then I have to force it using the sleeve and crank bolt. All good, but to get the sleeve back off I have to pull on the timing gear. AHHHRRGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe I'll try heating the sleeve as well.
I could grind down the key a bit, but that sounds drastic and might put me out of balance, no?
If I have damaged the thrust bearings, what would be the symptoms?
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Thrust bearing damage would let the crank walk back and forth more than the specification. (Meaning fore and aft).
Get a piece of all thread (treaded rod) the same size as the crank bolt. Then you need either a big washer or make a plate out of flat metal. Get a piece of exhaust pipe slightly larger than the crank snout and cut it slightly longer than the snout with the gear fully seated.
Thread the rod into the end of the crank.
Slide the gear and spacer if it has one on the crank, square.
Slide the pipe over the rod/crank end
Put the washer of plate on top of the pipe
Put a nut on the rod and use the whole shooting match as a press.
HTH (and is clear)
Get a piece of all thread (treaded rod) the same size as the crank bolt. Then you need either a big washer or make a plate out of flat metal. Get a piece of exhaust pipe slightly larger than the crank snout and cut it slightly longer than the snout with the gear fully seated.
Thread the rod into the end of the crank.
Slide the gear and spacer if it has one on the crank, square.
Slide the pipe over the rod/crank end
Put the washer of plate on top of the pipe
Put a nut on the rod and use the whole shooting match as a press.
HTH (and is clear)
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
I'vebeen using pipe to push the sleeve on farther. But the pipe is just bigger than the crank and not big enough to allow for the keys.
That's a good idea, if I use a bit larger pipe and push just the timing gear on without the sleeve. I've been using the sleeve, but then it get's stuck. I'm getting close, things are going on and coming off easier and the gear went on farther last time than any previous attempt. I heated both parts at 350 for a bit and iced down the snout.
I can't belive I've had the block for a day, and all I've done is get it out of the truck, mount the flex plate and put it on the stand. Well, I guees I did get the cam in :-)
Anyway, I'm back to work tomorrow and it probably won't see much progress for 4 days.
Thanks for the help so far, I'm sure I''ll have more questions.
That's a good idea, if I use a bit larger pipe and push just the timing gear on without the sleeve. I've been using the sleeve, but then it get's stuck. I'm getting close, things are going on and coming off easier and the gear went on farther last time than any previous attempt. I heated both parts at 350 for a bit and iced down the snout.
I can't belive I've had the block for a day, and all I've done is get it out of the truck, mount the flex plate and put it on the stand. Well, I guees I did get the cam in :-)
Anyway, I'm back to work tomorrow and it probably won't see much progress for 4 days.
Thanks for the help so far, I'm sure I''ll have more questions.