428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 1
From: Colville, Washington
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Another possible source for your valvetrain pieces is Ford Power Parts in CA. They have a website, but it only has their phone number on it.
I have used their stuff and found it to be excellent quality. They even replaced some parts about 3 years after I bought them when they showed wear(rocker stands). They know FEs well!
I have used their stuff and found it to be excellent quality. They even replaced some parts about 3 years after I bought them when they showed wear(rocker stands). They know FEs well!
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Is a roller cam a roller cam? Or is there a difference between a hydraulic roller and a mechanical roller or a solid roller, yadi yadi yadi.
I think I understand the difference between the lifters, but what is different about the cams?
I think I understand the difference between the lifters, but what is different about the cams?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
All this stuff is on the way. I went ahead and ordered the matching Crane springs, retainers and locks to avoid any mismatch with the Edel parts. So, it looks like I'll have an all new spring setup available if somebody needs one.
CRN-349521 Cam- Hydraulic roller
CRN-35532-16 Crane Hydraulic Roller Lifters
CRN-99098-1 Crane Machined Steel Valve Locks
CRN-99893-16 Crane Double Valve Springs
CRN-99954-16 Crane Steel Valve Spring Retainers
EDL-6009 rocker stud kit
ERS-E913020 SHIM KIT for Edel heads
ERS-E918502 Erson compete Arms, Stands and shafts
I'll have to take some measurments and order the Crane pushrods. Hopefully, I can get the tools and knowledge to do that without having to go to a machine shop. Any advice appreciated.
This is going to be a $10,000 motor before it's all over...I should be taken out and shot in the head. Guess I'll go ahead and bead-blast that intake, might as well make it all pretty now.
CRN-349521 Cam- Hydraulic roller
CRN-35532-16 Crane Hydraulic Roller Lifters
CRN-99098-1 Crane Machined Steel Valve Locks
CRN-99893-16 Crane Double Valve Springs
CRN-99954-16 Crane Steel Valve Spring Retainers
EDL-6009 rocker stud kit
ERS-E913020 SHIM KIT for Edel heads
ERS-E918502 Erson compete Arms, Stands and shafts
I'll have to take some measurments and order the Crane pushrods. Hopefully, I can get the tools and knowledge to do that without having to go to a machine shop. Any advice appreciated.
This is going to be a $10,000 motor before it's all over...I should be taken out and shot in the head. Guess I'll go ahead and bead-blast that intake, might as well make it all pretty now.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
From: South Carolina
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Man, that FE's getting meaner by the minute! You've got to get that thing to a dyno before you drop it in the truck. We'd love to see some real numbers on that.
I'm glad to see you're getting that Erson rocker assembly. That should do you very well. Are you gonna have to modify the block any to accommodate the roller cam?
Oh, and given everything else that's being done to this motor, why don't you just save that RPM intake for a "milder" motor and upgrade to a Victor, Blue Thunder or a Dove... It's only money! It doesn't do you any good to add it all up anyways, it'll just hurt your feelings!
One of these sure would be sweet on top of that stroker...
Just something to thing about. If you're gonna go, you might as well go big!
I'm glad to see you're getting that Erson rocker assembly. That should do you very well. Are you gonna have to modify the block any to accommodate the roller cam?
Oh, and given everything else that's being done to this motor, why don't you just save that RPM intake for a "milder" motor and upgrade to a Victor, Blue Thunder or a Dove... It's only money! It doesn't do you any good to add it all up anyways, it'll just hurt your feelings!
One of these sure would be sweet on top of that stroker...
Just something to thing about. If you're gonna go, you might as well go big!
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
I like the look of the Victor, but that 4500-8500 RPM power range does not sound friendly, since my motor will make most of it's power at 4500 RPM. It's still in a truck, a 3/4 ton truck no less.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 395
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From: South Carolina
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Yeah, I guess you're right. I just can't help but get excited about the way this thing's coming together. I think you've got an awesome package shaping up there.
Are you going to use a stock torque converter or are you going higher with the stall?
Are you going to use a stock torque converter or are you going higher with the stall?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Oh sure, you just tapped ito another dilema of mine :-)
I still want this thing to work like a truck if needed, so I'm afraid to go to a much higher stall. I had teh C6 and torque converter rebuilt about 4000 miles ago, and I liked the way it launched and shifted.
What do you guys think?
If there is any truth to this Desktop Dyno profile, it should be making gobs of torque, even at low RPMs.
I still want this thing to work like a truck if needed, so I'm afraid to go to a much higher stall. I had teh C6 and torque converter rebuilt about 4000 miles ago, and I liked the way it launched and shifted.
What do you guys think?
If there is any truth to this Desktop Dyno profile, it should be making gobs of torque, even at low RPMs.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,268
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From: Eureka, Ca.
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Dex, If I spent that kind of money on a motor my wife would grab the kids and leave me. Hmmm, no kids...... But then who would play with me and my toys. (I am blind after all and need someone to drive me around in these things)
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 395
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From: South Carolina
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
The torque should definitely be there, but your cam may be a deciding factor. Crane says "fair idle" for that cam... whatever that means! I don't know how choppy that is, but if it has too much lope to it, you'll need some stall just to keep it running when you put it in gear with your foot on the brake.
I don't know how to accurately match up stall converter/engine combo. Mine has too much stall... when I put it in gear, the motor continues to idle exactly as it does in park. Then it spins too much before it gets moving. So I won't even begin to try to advise you on a stall converter!
I don't know how to accurately match up stall converter/engine combo. Mine has too much stall... when I put it in gear, the motor continues to idle exactly as it does in park. Then it spins too much before it gets moving. So I won't even begin to try to advise you on a stall converter!
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
From: South Carolina
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
The torque should definitely be there, but your cam may be a deciding factor. Crane says "fair idle" for that cam... whatever that means! I don't know how choppy that is, but if it has too much lope to it, you'll need some stall just to keep it running when you put it in gear with your foot on the brake.
I don't know how to accurately match up stall converter/engine combo. Mine has too much stall... when I put it in gear, the motor continues to idle exactly as it does in park. Then it spins too much before it gets moving. So I won't even begin to try to advise you on a stall converter!
I don't know how to accurately match up stall converter/engine combo. Mine has too much stall... when I put it in gear, the motor continues to idle exactly as it does in park. Then it spins too much before it gets moving. So I won't even begin to try to advise you on a stall converter!
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 426
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Originally posted by 71FoMoCo
.........Crane says "fair idle" for that cam......whatever that means!....................
.........Crane says "fair idle" for that cam......whatever that means!....................
Well if it helps at all, (it probably does not)
"Good" (which is rougher than "Smooth"
) means "Barely perceptible" so I would think that "Fair" means "Noticeable".Again I bring up that this engine is 448 CID, which I think is going to make for a very slight rough idle.
Its like if you stick a FMS E303 in a 302, it is a moderate choppy idle, but the same cam in a 347 or 351 is nearly stock like idle.
I would give crane tech support a call and ask about the converter, but I would be very surprised if you need too much more than stock.
Last edited by DuckRyder; Sep 10, 2003 at 04:35 PM.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
I love the internet. All of the roller setup goodies are here. See some pics at the bottom of the page. At his moment, I am impressed with Summit. I am completely disgusted with Flatlander. They have provided the worst service I ever experienced. I just hope the motor is better quality than the service. I reccomend you avoid Flatlander like the plague.
http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/69f250/67f250/fe446.htm
I've taken care of most of my concerns now, by throwing money at them. I think the only remaining stock parts, are the timing cover and oil pan, flex plate, balancer/sleeve :-)
I still have 2 concerns:
1. Pushrod measurments: any idea how to do this? Should I just haul it to a machine shop and have this thing balanced again with the front and top end assembled?
2. If I damaged the thrust bearing while struggling with the cam gear, how can I tell? What would be involved in a fix, $$?
thanks again for all of the advice, this thread is huge !
http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/69f250/67f250/fe446.htm
I've taken care of most of my concerns now, by throwing money at them. I think the only remaining stock parts, are the timing cover and oil pan, flex plate, balancer/sleeve :-)
I still have 2 concerns:
1. Pushrod measurments: any idea how to do this? Should I just haul it to a machine shop and have this thing balanced again with the front and top end assembled?
2. If I damaged the thrust bearing while struggling with the cam gear, how can I tell? What would be involved in a fix, $$?
thanks again for all of the advice, this thread is huge !
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
From: Eureka, Ca.
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
HR built a 390 with the same roller setup as yours and they came up with a 8.710" push rod.
www.hotrod.com/webonly_january/index.html
www.hotrod.com/webonly_january/index.html
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,562
Likes: 424
From: Long Island USA
428 stroker is in the same county :-)
Originally posted by gtex
I love the internet. All of the roller setup goodies are here. See some pics at the bottom of the page.
<snip>
2. If I damaged the thrust bearing while struggling with the cam gear, how can I tell? What would be involved in a fix, $$?
thanks again for all of the advice, this thread is huge !
I love the internet. All of the roller setup goodies are here. See some pics at the bottom of the page.
<snip>
2. If I damaged the thrust bearing while struggling with the cam gear, how can I tell? What would be involved in a fix, $$?
thanks again for all of the advice, this thread is huge !
Unless you were smacking the crank witha hammer or turning the crank with a lot of pulling power on the front, I doubt you screwed the thrust bearing. Check the end-play of the crank and see if it's out-of-bounds.
By the way, I almost wet my pants when I saw that last photo of the roller rockers/shaft/stands. NICE.
ak