So I have spent approximately 2 years looking for a way to get a fifth wheel. And this weekend I'm traveling about 12 hours to pick up one up. Quickly, here's my story.

I talked my wife into driving the newly purchased 2016 F250, 4x4, CrewCab, 157" WB, 3.55 RAR. Perhaps I could have gotten her to drive a F350 but I figured this was the biggest I could go with her driving it. I probably made a mistake thinking this. I think I could have done the F350. Not sure if there is much of a size difference at all?? Too late. Not going to do a trade in with 1000 miles on it.

I'm looking at the 2017 Open range 376FBH. It is by far our favorite floor plan it has a dry weight of 12,015. I can guarantee you I will not ever exceed 1000 lbs of gear. Will that change with the extra storage? I really don't think so. Right now I travel with less than 600 lbs.

So here's my problem broken down by numbers I need to focus on:
1. GCWR - 23,500. I'll be under this by 3000 lbs or so.
2. GVWR - 10,000. I don't know? It will be close? I may exceed. I have a family of five. As I plan on driving this truck until they are older, my future family will weigh roughly 600 - 650. Other than that we'll have gas, snacks, pillows, tablets in the truck. Everything else will be in the trailer. If i figure a way to bring bikes/kayaks, it will be strapped to the very back of the trailer. This should leave me close to 2000 lbs...rough estimate.
3. Hitch Weight - 2600 lbs. Using the numbers in #2, you can see my problem. I believe I'll be roughly 600 lbs over my payload capacity.

At this point, I have my truck. Yes I know, find your trailer first and buy the truck to match. I honestly thought the F250 was the biggest I could get my wife to drive but I do have buyer's remorse at this point. My plan at this point is to get the trailer, bring it home, feel it out, and if there is any question it feels weighed down or feels weird, throw some airbags on.

Am I close enough to pull this off? Is this a reasonable plan? Your help is appreciated. Also, not beating a dead horse is appreciated. I can't buy a new vehicle at this point so please no pointing out that I need to bet a DRW if I want to haul this sort of weight. Thanks!

 

I am guessing you haven't actaully weighed the fiver so at this point you really don't know the actual weights, which could be a great deal more than you anticipate. At this point it is kind of a guessing game. The manufacturer's numbers could be right on or off considerably.

Steve

 

I haven't weighed anything. All estimates. I do think I'm good on GCWR. I just think there's no way they could be off by 2500 - 3000 lbs on the trailer weight. Let's say hitch weight is off by a few more hundred? Are airbags a good plan to compensate for 1000 lbs over capacity?

 

Before you go get the trailer, might want to weigh your truck. Get the front axle weight and the rear axle weight. If possible have it loaded the way you'll be camping with it (e.g. tool box, gas can, family, etc). At that point you might be able to move or remove some stuff on the truck.

For instance, the tool box may have to go into the camper. Or remove the tailgate and running boards. Or your truck may already be bare bones and there's no weight to shift. At least you'll know what you have.

Do you have a hitch yet? Might want to find a light one.

 

Air bags level, they don't change weight ratings overall. I doubt it will be off 2,500, but I recall some folks mentioning north of a 1,000 when they weighed theirs.

The issue is how much weight you will be putting on your rear axle and tires, and without knowing the weights it is impossible to tell. If the question is simply do some folks go over the weight limits of the truck, they absolutely do. Should you is a judgement call only you can make.

Steve

 

Where can you weigh? I know a lot of these truck stop/gas stations have scales but I don't know of any by me in Atlanta (actually, 50 miles north of Atlanta).

I see what guys pull with F250's. I just saw that "15,100" tow capacity!! Why did they not apply the same calculation to determine their hitch weight!! 15,1000 x 25% = 3775.

Please excuse the naive/stupid question, but what can go wrong when you exceed hitch weight but stay under GCWR? You talking about a broken axle? Or are you talking about not being able to stop?

 

And....if i'm driving down the road and have an honest accident (someone pulls out in front of me and I can't stop) will being under GCWR save me or would they look to see if I exceeded hitch capacity? My main goal here is to be treated like any normal accident where the person at fault pays. And if I'm at fault, I want my insurance to pay. I don't want to pay out of my own pocket. So really, how critical is staying within the hitch weight??

 

Nick,

Here's the thing. So often these type of questions turn ugly and I don't want that.

You can weigh at a truck stop with a CAT scale as well as some moving companies and some gravel yards as long as they have a scale and are willing.

Each one of us makes a decision as to whether they want to follow the manufacturer's weight ratings. Will anything happen if you don't? I don't know. I don't think anyone here knows for sure. Maybe nothing at all happens. Accidents involving RVs are scarce, that's simply a fact.

I tend to err on the side of conservatism. By that I mean I never knowingly cross any spec for anything. It is simply how I have worked as a tech for nearly 20 years. I just don't want to have to address the kinds of things for myself you are asking here. My position has always been, when I am towing I am responsible not only for my own safety, but everyone else's on the road. I know that makes me boring as the devil.

Others on here will tell you they exceed their ratings by a little or a lot, and while I respect them, I do not share their opinion. That is why I say this has to be your decision. It is not to blow you off. It is just the reality of making the choice. There is no way to predict how fault will fall in the eventy of an accident.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best and hope you enjoy your new RV,

Steve

 

I don't know enough about legalities or insurance to comment on being overweight.

As far as where to weigh...I use CAT scales. Have also been weighed at a local junk yard. You could try feed mills.

Can't imagine breaking an axle...you'd have to be stupid over weight to do that. I can see you blowing tires or breaking springs by over doing it though.

 

If you are near I-85 north of Atlanta there are Flying J's and Pilots along that route. I am off of exit 177 on I-85 and know of a few different CAT scales. What town are you in, I can maybe direct you to one close by as I am in Hartwell in N. GA.

If you are worried about the truck hardware (springs, axle, etc) breaking then you can upgrade or modify them to make them handle the weight easier. If you are worried about stopping the trailer, again there are things you can do like disc brakes, suspension modifications to the trailer. If you are worried about insurance claims, every situation is different and up to the insurance companies and law enforcement to decide who was at fault and liable for damages.

I can tell you this. If you are worried about pulling the camper, then you never will and it will sit. The worst thing you can do is buy a camper and not use it and let it sit and rot. Figure out a game plan to make yourself safe and comfortable and move on with it. I pull a 2011 Montana High Country 313RE with my 2000 7.3 short bed 7.3 F-250. Although the truck is rated to pull that much, I have done things to make it safer and much more manageable. Upgraded intake, turbo, fuel system, E rated tires, and a list of other things.

I have in my garage waiting to go on the truck Air Lift bags, compressor, OUO traction bars, shocks, etc... These will not only make pulling the camper much easier, they will greatly reduce fatigue on me and my family when we are pulling. I plan to install upgraded axles, springs and disc brakes onto the trailer in the next year. Look at it this way, $2000 for upgraded brakes and suspension on the trailer is a lot of money. Well, stop short of an accident because of the upgrades just one time and they have paid for themselves and maybe saved a life.

Keep it simple and where you are comfortable with it.

 

Man....love the help here!! I actually live in Cumming, just off of Lake Lanier, just shy of the outlets on 400. My wife will not let it sit so it looks like I have two options if we don't like the towing experience:
1. Trade truck in and never have a vehicle that gets paid off! But I still can't do a dually until I have a son that can drive it to school at least. That's 6 years away. So would have to hope the F350 SRW would be sufficient.
2. Upgrade breaks, airbags, etc. I'll look for a place to do the weighing to see how close i am and if upgrades can get me to a good comfort level. I honestly think I'm so close but who knows?? A bit afraid I do the upgrades and lose warranty plus may still have a bad experience? It has to be better than towing a 7k lb travel trailer with an EcoBoost. It pulled great but every tractor trailer that I passed or passed me would get me gripping that steering wheel!

I also called Liberty Mutual and had them confirm to me exceeding hitch weight would not cause me to lose my coverage in the event of an accident. I even said, what if someone dies and they really investigate. She pretty much said it would be treated like a normal incident. So if I was speeding or drunk, I'd still be in trouble. If it was a legitimate accident it would be treated as such. Hitch weight would not be considered. GCWR would be however.

I think I'm going to do it. I have about 8 months before the Montana trip so I suppose I can use a bonus towards upgrades if it's needed. Or.....see if a dealership wants to do a trade-in. I've owned, 1 2013, 2 2014's (5.0 and EcoBoost), and now a 2016. I suppose that's always an option. And most likely, what will happen. I love the smell of a new truck. Haven't bought new clothes in 5 years but I'll get a new truck without even thinking about it.

 

What I would do is to get the truck on the scale with how you would roll minus the trailer.


Then consult you axle rating and tire ratings. Subject the two and what you have remaining is capacity is what counts.


tires will probably be the weakest. Go by the sidewall, not the door cert for their capacities.


Now take the trailer GVW and 20% of that will be king pin wt. Don't go off of what they advertised. 20% of the gvw is going to be pretty accurate. that king pin wt is your payload. Bounce that against what you got when you were empty on the scales for the drive and steer axles.


I think you will be ok myself.


You may want air bags to level it after you drive it a bit.

 

Thank you much again......I'll be back to see if Mr. Ford jumps online and tells me to go for it!

 

Here's another way to look at things, Nick.

Your cargo capacity is the GVWR (10,000) minus the weight of the truck. I'm guessing it's probably around 2400. (You can look at the door pillar to verify). The GVWR of 10,000 is just a number that is applied to the truck for registration purposes (some states charge higher fees/commercial rates for higher GVWR)

In all likelihood, your f250 is no different than an f250 with an 11,400 GVWR truck, other than the rating. Also, your f250 is probably no different than an f350, except for 2" blocks on the rear vs. 4" blocks and the higher GVWR.

So, while on paper, you may be over your cargo capacity, in reality you may be within your limits. Probably the reason your insurance company said hitch weight didn't matter.

I towed a fifth wheel with an f250 that was a bit heavier than yours. The trailer was about 13,500 lbs. I towed it for almost a year and a half. I could pull it fine. I could stop ok too but I could definitely feel the 42' trailer behind me and I could feel it "wagging the dog" at times. I was always on alert while towing. I always had both hands tightly gripped on the wheel. I had to make an emergency maneuver to avoid some a-hole that cut in front of me to take an exit and I didn't feel I had the right truck. I needed a bigger truck. I went and got a long bed dually and couldn't be happier. I think if you do decide on a new truck, you should give a dually serious consideration. You'll have a much better towing experience.

 

At the very least, you will need air bags. Your "dry weight" on your hitch (2664 lbs) is more than my loaded weight on my rig's hitch (2520 lbs). This is mine with stock, unmodified suspension and a 2520 lb pin weight:




This is the same weight, same everything, after air bags:




Now, that "dry weight" listed is usually done with nothing in the rig, no batteries and no propane, just "as shipped" from factory to dealer. Ours was "off" by +100 lbs when we weighed it on the way home from buying it. Battery and propane could account for most of that. So our dry weight went from 2300 lbs actual to 2520 pounds loaded, with full water tank, food, beverages, gear, clothes, etc, and 4 Labrador retrievers (combined weight ~350 lbs of dogs).

My truck with tool box, tools, full tank of gas, and me in it, weighs 7380 lbs. It is a gas engine extended cab, so weighs less than your crew cab diesel. Here is my weight sticker from my door jamb:




Yours will be less, as your truck weighs more.

My loaded trailer weight is 11,800 lbs, which is substantially less than it's gross weight capacity of 13,999 lbs.

I am showing you all of this in order to tell you that I am right on the very hairy edge of my truck's capacity rating. I am under on all counts, but the rear axle weight is close ~500 lbs. And my current tires are VERY close, at 300 lbs. So my truck is rated for higher capacity numbers than yours, and my trailer (both overall weight and pin weight) is lighter than yours, and I'm very close to exceeding max weight on my rear axle and my rear tires.

This is where you are going to run into a wall, rear axle and tire weight ratings. With a single rear axle, you are going to have more weight on your rear tires than they are safely rated to carry, and likely you will be FAR over on that tire rating. Air bags and aftermarket gizmo's are not going to fix that. At the least, expect short tire life and at the worst, a rear tire blow out from overheating/overloading your tires.

Lots of people run their trucks over weight. That is their choice, but if you choose that, then at least go into that with your eyes open and realize that you are accepting the liability for what can happen.

For me, I will be looking for new tires next year, and I'll be looking for higher weight ratings on my next set of tires. I'm still closer to my max truck rating than I would like, and would probably consider trading for a dually if I didn't live in snow country.

Good luck and safe travels whatever you decide.