Valve Spring Shimming
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Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Langley, BC
Valve Spring Shimming
Hi, guys. Looking for suggestions on how to best approach shimming my valve springs.
The engine is a Ford 300 inline six. I have oversized valves in it but the only manufacturer of oversized valves for the 300 discontinued them. I was able to buy intake valves from them but not exhaust valves. I'm using SBC exhaust valves which are 0.101" longer than the intake valves that are sized specifically for the 300. This is why I'm needing advice. I've never done this before.
The springs and retainer kit is a Crower 84010, made for the 300, meaning the springs are Crower 68305 and the retainers are Crower 87048. So basically the intake side of the valvetrain can be left alone.
I need to find a way to make up this 0.101" difference in valve length with the spring. I could simply shim it, but the spring boss on the head is only about .020" more than the 0.101" difference and I don't feel that .020" is enough to reliably locate a valve spring.
I've heard of people using shims, locator cups, and I think I remember someone online mentioning that you can get retainers that add height to the spring?
How would you guys go about doing this? Never messed with springs before. I'll take all the advice I can get.
The engine is a Ford 300 inline six. I have oversized valves in it but the only manufacturer of oversized valves for the 300 discontinued them. I was able to buy intake valves from them but not exhaust valves. I'm using SBC exhaust valves which are 0.101" longer than the intake valves that are sized specifically for the 300. This is why I'm needing advice. I've never done this before.
The springs and retainer kit is a Crower 84010, made for the 300, meaning the springs are Crower 68305 and the retainers are Crower 87048. So basically the intake side of the valvetrain can be left alone.
I need to find a way to make up this 0.101" difference in valve length with the spring. I could simply shim it, but the spring boss on the head is only about .020" more than the 0.101" difference and I don't feel that .020" is enough to reliably locate a valve spring.
I've heard of people using shims, locator cups, and I think I remember someone online mentioning that you can get retainers that add height to the spring?
How would you guys go about doing this? Never messed with springs before. I'll take all the advice I can get.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 69
I get all my cylinder head rebuild products and tools from Silver Seal
Silver Seal Products Cylinder Head Rebuilding
They have the most complete selection. Go to website > shop online > cylinder head rebuilding > valve spring inserts.
A few suggestions:
It is often easier to remove the production stepped seat, machine the guide bosses to a common industry size, install PC seals, and spot face the spring seat area (note: DO NOT CUT THE SPRING SEAT DEEPER). That will give you many possibilities - spring cups, larger springs, etc. Consider hipo retainers - they are much harder. Also,you may be able to find a different retainer to set the spring height where you need it. Good luck with your build.
Silver Seal Products Cylinder Head Rebuilding
They have the most complete selection. Go to website > shop online > cylinder head rebuilding > valve spring inserts.
A few suggestions:
It is often easier to remove the production stepped seat, machine the guide bosses to a common industry size, install PC seals, and spot face the spring seat area (note: DO NOT CUT THE SPRING SEAT DEEPER). That will give you many possibilities - spring cups, larger springs, etc. Consider hipo retainers - they are much harder. Also,you may be able to find a different retainer to set the spring height where you need it. Good luck with your build.
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Langley, BC
Thanks for your reply. I remember you saying you've managed to make SBC valves work in the past. Unfortunately I'm not 100% understanding what you're suggesting. Are you saying I machine this portion of the spring seat in to a more common size?
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 69
Yes.
If you remove it and spot face the pad you can get a common size spring cup or shim/spacer.
It looks like you already knurled and machined the guides for PC seals so you are ahead on that deal.
Do you see how much metal was removed during machining, near the core plug? That is why cutting the seats deeper is risky.
If you remove it and spot face the pad you can get a common size spring cup or shim/spacer.
It looks like you already knurled and machined the guides for PC seals so you are ahead on that deal.
Do you see how much metal was removed during machining, near the core plug? That is why cutting the seats deeper is risky.
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Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Langley, BC
I never had the seat itself machined. That's original. But yes I see what you mean. Not much meat on the 300 head, which is why I didn't go crazy on the porting either.
Could you please define for me what spot facing is?
Could you please define for me what spot facing is?
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
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From: Near Los Angeles
AbandonedBronco just discovered that SI valves now has oem length oversize valves for the 300, once again.
I would warn about using the proper lock/retainer combo for the valves, i.e. Ford/Chevy. I made the mistake of mixing and--'bless my lucky stars'--nearly sucked a valve.
Spot facing is having the machinist true up the surface where a bolt head or spring sits, so the spring mating surface is absolutely 90* to the valve shaft. It is also done to the circular spots where head bolts sit to make them 100% parallel to the head mating surface.
I would warn about using the proper lock/retainer combo for the valves, i.e. Ford/Chevy. I made the mistake of mixing and--'bless my lucky stars'--nearly sucked a valve.
Spot facing is having the machinist true up the surface where a bolt head or spring sits, so the spring mating surface is absolutely 90* to the valve shaft. It is also done to the circular spots where head bolts sit to make them 100% parallel to the head mating surface.
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Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Langley, BC
Seriously? Ok I'm going to contact them right away.
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From: Boise, Idaho
I haven't been to my machinist in a few weeks due to moving so I haven't heard if he's gotten them in (which would truly validate their availability), but I was in his office with him when he called S.I. The guy we spoke to looked them up and took the order and said he'd be mailing them out that afternoon.
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Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Langley, BC
Just phoned today. The guy said he'd send them today or tomorrow via UPS. Thanks so much for the heads up. This makes my life easier and my engine less hokey.
I gave the guy grief though for screwing me around last time saying they were on back order and then oh never mind not available anymore.
I gave the guy grief though for screwing me around last time saying they were on back order and then oh never mind not available anymore.
Yup, just stopped at the shop this morning and saw mine.
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Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Langley, BC
Dropped the head off today to have the valves ground and springs assembled. Excited!!
You wouldn't believe how difficult it was to source Cummins beige paint. I bought a case of the stuff because there's no way I'm getting any touch up paint within due time.
But in reality I hate the sound and smell of the Cummins. I just wanted the colour. No one else has it and with it being an inline six it confuses people. I do remember once tossing my dad the keys and when he returned home I genuinely thought it was a Cummins I was hearing on the street.
But in reality I hate the sound and smell of the Cummins. I just wanted the colour. No one else has it and with it being an inline six it confuses people. I do remember once tossing my dad the keys and when he returned home I genuinely thought it was a Cummins I was hearing on the street.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Deep River, CT.
On Your Dads return home, Did he run out of oil and the lifters clacking? LOL Just kidding with you. I check the six cyl site every day to see what's going on and follow all the projects. Been a Cummins fan for 60 yrs and that started when I was 13. It was all HD engines then.
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