A (mostly) pointless question
Thread Starter
|
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 478
Likes: 10
From: Minnesota
A (mostly) pointless question
First a disclaimer. I have no intention of doing so as I'm already positive the cost benefit ratio is way out of whack. As in, I see no benefit and huge cost. This is purely hypothetical and to help me better understand the internal combustion engine.
But, let's say a person wanted to reverse the air flow through the head on their 7.3. Would you need to do anything other than reroute the intake and exhaust and have a cam shaft ground that would open the exhaust valves on the intake stroke and vice versa.
I know the valves are different sizes to optimize air flow of two different gasses. Or at least I think they are. And the intake plenums might melt. And I could probably think of a lengthy list of pitfalls if I thought hard enough about it. So there would obviously be some machining and material issues to overcome in the stock setup.
But let's say someone was bullheadedly stubborn, or just wanted to say they had the only reverse flow head 7.3, or any other engine for that matter. Could they do it? Or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?
Joe
But, let's say a person wanted to reverse the air flow through the head on their 7.3. Would you need to do anything other than reroute the intake and exhaust and have a cam shaft ground that would open the exhaust valves on the intake stroke and vice versa.
I know the valves are different sizes to optimize air flow of two different gasses. Or at least I think they are. And the intake plenums might melt. And I could probably think of a lengthy list of pitfalls if I thought hard enough about it. So there would obviously be some machining and material issues to overcome in the stock setup.
But let's say someone was bullheadedly stubborn, or just wanted to say they had the only reverse flow head 7.3, or any other engine for that matter. Could they do it? Or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?
Joe
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,744
Likes: 5
From: Earth
hypethectically yes it *COULD* be done, but your looking into a lot of R&D time, and you would not only have to get the pistons to reverse there cycle, but the cam, the water pump, oil pump, Hpop and all the other interconnected things would have to be figured out on the "how to make it work in reverse" bit, so with in minutes it would be cost prohibitive and honestly not worth it, plus things would most likely break in very short order if you did run it in a reverse pattern as they are designed to run a specific way (as I understand it)...
Remember engines are basically a glorified air pump already, they just use a source (fuel of some kind) to move the pistons...
Remember engines are basically a glorified air pump already, they just use a source (fuel of some kind) to move the pistons...
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 22
From: Springfield, PA
Actually it would be simple to reverse the flow, all you would need is a new camshaft. The intake is larger because the intake stream is at a lower pressure and thus lower density than the exhaust. There are V8 engines where the exhaust is in the valley, BMW has a twin turbo V8 like this.
You could even convert an engine into a two stroke, albeit a highly inefficient one as they don't like poppet valves that much.
You could even convert an engine into a two stroke, albeit a highly inefficient one as they don't like poppet valves that much.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 17
From: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted by SaintITC
Actually it would be simple to reverse the flow, all you would need is a new camshaft. The intake is larger because the intake stream is at a lower pressure and thus lower density than the exhaust. There are V8 engines where the exhaust is in the valley, BMW has a twin turbo V8 like this.
You could even convert an engine into a two stroke, albeit a highly inefficient one as they don't like poppet valves that much.
You could even convert an engine into a two stroke, albeit a highly inefficient one as they don't like poppet valves that much.
Senior User
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: Western NY
Yes it can be done, you would have to have the engine still rotate the same direction to have starter, oil pumps and transmission to work. Maybe reclock or regrind the cam, build new intake and exhaust etc. flip the turbo around and probly a hundred other things.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 22
From: Springfield, PA
Trending Topics
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,340
Likes: 588
From: Amarillo, TEXAS!
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalytic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 10,750
Likes: 1,065
From: Douglassville, PA
I had more than one of the old Detroit Diesels running backwards when I backed under a heavy trailer that was dropped low without enough momentum to get all the way under it. It gets stinky in the cab pretty quickly.
Thread Starter
|
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 478
Likes: 10
From: Minnesota
The Ford 6.7 gave me the idea. I can't claim that it was an original thought. It just seems like a great idea to minimize the up pipe by reversing the flow, when the motor is designed from the ground up that way.
As I said I have no intention to attempt this. My buck$zooka's ammo has been allocated by the misses to a trip to Italy this fall. And my ammo factory wouldn't support that kind of conflict anyway.
Although it would be fun until the wiring harness melted from the heat in the valley, which may or may not shut the truck down before the hpop quits it's job. And the fuel line's protest by burning whole works to the ground.
As I said I have no intention to attempt this. My buck$zooka's ammo has been allocated by the misses to a trip to Italy this fall. And my ammo factory wouldn't support that kind of conflict anyway.
Although it would be fun until the wiring harness melted from the heat in the valley, which may or may not shut the truck down before the hpop quits it's job. And the fuel line's protest by burning whole works to the ground.
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,507
Likes: 5,563
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
the marine reverse rotation engines are a different animal than what he is talking about.
having the exhaust in the valley and intake on the outside of the heads is nothing new, it was done back in the 60's with the 289 for race engines. and the made sick power way back then too. some were on the lines of 600+ hp out of a 289 CI block.
having the exhaust in the valley and intake on the outside of the heads is nothing new, it was done back in the 60's with the 289 for race engines. and the made sick power way back then too. some were on the lines of 600+ hp out of a 289 CI block.
Junior User
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
7.3 Intake/Exhaust valves are same size, 6.0 and up they are not for "emissions reasons".
Thread Starter
|
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 478
Likes: 10
From: Minnesota
You guys are (almost) making me want to try it. I feel like it would be far simpler on my idi than on my powerstroke though. That old idi only needs 12V to hold the fuel shutoff solenoid open. Everything else is analog. It could be my lame claim to fame.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jack048307
FE & FT Big Block V8 (332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428)
19
Apr 2, 2007 08:21 AM
