A (mostly) pointless question
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Tuned
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Minnesota
A (mostly) pointless question
First a disclaimer. I have no intention of doing so as I'm already positive the cost benefit ratio is way out of whack. As in, I see no benefit and huge cost. This is purely hypothetical and to help me better understand the internal combustion engine.
But, let's say a person wanted to reverse the air flow through the head on their 7.3. Would you need to do anything other than reroute the intake and exhaust and have a cam shaft ground that would open the exhaust valves on the intake stroke and vice versa.
I know the valves are different sizes to optimize air flow of two different gasses. Or at least I think they are. And the intake plenums might melt. And I could probably think of a lengthy list of pitfalls if I thought hard enough about it. So there would obviously be some machining and material issues to overcome in the stock setup.
But let's say someone was bullheadedly stubborn, or just wanted to say they had the only reverse flow head 7.3, or any other engine for that matter. Could they do it? Or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?
Joe
But, let's say a person wanted to reverse the air flow through the head on their 7.3. Would you need to do anything other than reroute the intake and exhaust and have a cam shaft ground that would open the exhaust valves on the intake stroke and vice versa.
I know the valves are different sizes to optimize air flow of two different gasses. Or at least I think they are. And the intake plenums might melt. And I could probably think of a lengthy list of pitfalls if I thought hard enough about it. So there would obviously be some machining and material issues to overcome in the stock setup.
But let's say someone was bullheadedly stubborn, or just wanted to say they had the only reverse flow head 7.3, or any other engine for that matter. Could they do it? Or is there something fundamental I'm missing here?
Joe
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Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Earth
hypethectically yes it *COULD* be done, but your looking into a lot of R&D time, and you would not only have to get the pistons to reverse there cycle, but the cam, the water pump, oil pump, Hpop and all the other interconnected things would have to be figured out on the "how to make it work in reverse" bit, so with in minutes it would be cost prohibitive and honestly not worth it, plus things would most likely break in very short order if you did run it in a reverse pattern as they are designed to run a specific way (as I understand it)...
Remember engines are basically a glorified air pump already, they just use a source (fuel of some kind) to move the pistons...
Remember engines are basically a glorified air pump already, they just use a source (fuel of some kind) to move the pistons...
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Springfield, PA
Actually it would be simple to reverse the flow, all you would need is a new camshaft. The intake is larger because the intake stream is at a lower pressure and thus lower density than the exhaust. There are V8 engines where the exhaust is in the valley, BMW has a twin turbo V8 like this.
You could even convert an engine into a two stroke, albeit a highly inefficient one as they don't like poppet valves that much.
You could even convert an engine into a two stroke, albeit a highly inefficient one as they don't like poppet valves that much.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted by SaintITC
Actually it would be simple to reverse the flow, all you would need is a new camshaft. The intake is larger because the intake stream is at a lower pressure and thus lower density than the exhaust. There are V8 engines where the exhaust is in the valley, BMW has a twin turbo V8 like this.
You could even convert an engine into a two stroke, albeit a highly inefficient one as they don't like poppet valves that much.
You could even convert an engine into a two stroke, albeit a highly inefficient one as they don't like poppet valves that much.
Senior User
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From: Western NY
Yes it can be done, you would have to have the engine still rotate the same direction to have starter, oil pumps and transmission to work. Maybe reclock or regrind the cam, build new intake and exhaust etc. flip the turbo around and probly a hundred other things.
Fleet Mechanic
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From: Springfield, PA
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I had more than one of the old Detroit Diesels running backwards when I backed under a heavy trailer that was dropped low without enough momentum to get all the way under it. It gets stinky in the cab pretty quickly.
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Tuned
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From: Minnesota
The Ford 6.7 gave me the idea. I can't claim that it was an original thought. It just seems like a great idea to minimize the up pipe by reversing the flow, when the motor is designed from the ground up that way.
As I said I have no intention to attempt this. My buck$zooka's ammo has been allocated by the misses to a trip to Italy this fall. And my ammo factory wouldn't support that kind of conflict anyway.
Although it would be fun until the wiring harness melted from the heat in the valley, which may or may not shut the truck down before the hpop quits it's job. And the fuel line's protest by burning whole works to the ground.
As I said I have no intention to attempt this. My buck$zooka's ammo has been allocated by the misses to a trip to Italy this fall. And my ammo factory wouldn't support that kind of conflict anyway.
Although it would be fun until the wiring harness melted from the heat in the valley, which may or may not shut the truck down before the hpop quits it's job. And the fuel line's protest by burning whole works to the ground.
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
the marine reverse rotation engines are a different animal than what he is talking about.
having the exhaust in the valley and intake on the outside of the heads is nothing new, it was done back in the 60's with the 289 for race engines. and the made sick power way back then too. some were on the lines of 600+ hp out of a 289 CI block.
having the exhaust in the valley and intake on the outside of the heads is nothing new, it was done back in the 60's with the 289 for race engines. and the made sick power way back then too. some were on the lines of 600+ hp out of a 289 CI block.
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7.3 Intake/Exhaust valves are same size, 6.0 and up they are not for "emissions reasons".
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Tuned
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Minnesota
You guys are (almost) making me want to try it. I feel like it would be far simpler on my idi than on my powerstroke though. That old idi only needs 12V to hold the fuel shutoff solenoid open. Everything else is analog. It could be my lame claim to fame.
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