I'm a new poster, and I'm coming here because I am not sure where else to go with this issue, but I'm desperate for a solution.

My truck (2011 F-150, the new 5.0) was making a ticking noise at idle after being warmed up. When the RPMs rose over 1000, the ticking went away. It was faint, didn't affect my oil pressure or how the truck drove. My dad, who has been in the automotive business for 44 years (not some wannabe, I assure you. I know everybody is a mechanic from the security of their couch), said it's likely a gunky lifter. Since I bought the extended warranty, a licensed mechanic has to work on it. My dad hasn't maintained his certification (he's almost 70), So I took it to the Ford dealer where I purchased the truck, 14k miles ago.

That was three weeks ago. First they tried "Well ma'am when did you change your oil last, there is some metal glitter in the oil pan."-timeless trick to scare a female into unnecessary repairs. We change my oil with full synthetic every 5k miles. My dad pours the oil out into the bottles to be disposed of, and cleans the pan. If he ever saw metal, he would have hit the roof long ago. After I produced oil receipts, they then changed the story completely and insisted that this was a bottom end issue, and made me authorize tearing down the entire engine, claiming "It was knocking like hell going up the road." Funny, my husband, dad, brother who is a mechanical engineer, nobody else heard that. They all, like me heard a noise at idle that went away with accelerating...

They dismantled my engine and called to tell me I absolutely needed a new engine on day 3 of their exploration. They insisted it was the rod bearings, oh they're really bad. I asked if they were scored. They say "Well no, they're discolored-kind of brown" So they call warranty and have them out, but warranty says my rod bearings look brand new, as did my dad, who showed up there and said to show him this "faulty rod bearing". The inside of my engine is glowing silver still they stated, and warranty couldn't stop raving about how well maintained this vehicle is. Yes, that's why I bought it. They said they would be happy to replace whatever is broken, but what they are pointing fingers at isn't the source of the noise. They've been more than accommodating, and they said they wouldn't hesitate to fix the noise-they know maintenance is clearly not the cause.

Then 2 weeks go by while they dodge my phone calls. I stopped leaving voicemails the first week. I don't get a call. I learned I have to call back from a number they don't recognize to trick them into speaking to me. Then they just tell me they're "working on a justification for the engine", but their "engine guy" only works there a few days a week. Only one set of eyes *somewhat* qualified to work on an engine, and this is at a Ford dealership. As always, the answer is finding a reason to justify a new engine. Not just to find the source of the ticking and fix it--it is new engine or bust.

Now at the end of last week my dad got with the Service Manager. He acted apologetic, and said now they're looking at the top end of the motor. He is now claiming the threading on the #8 cylinder is worn. Then he said a wrist pin is bad. He stated they'd get the motor put back together over the weekend, and have my dad out this morning to see what they're talking about. He said if it is a lifter, they won't charge us anything for our troubles-another customer service promise they didn't follow through on. 4:30 pm rolled around, and they're dodging my dad's calls too. When he gets ahold of them, he is back to this wrist pin he claims is bad, yet cannot point it out to the warranty adjuster, who has been called now 3 times for bogus diagnoses. They are also now saying that they hear a piston slap at 2000 RPMS. My dad is going up there tomorrow, but I am beyond uncomfortable with these people. If there is piston slap-this is a new noise due to their faulty re-assembly.

At this point, either the mechanic is trying to drum up work by fraudulently creating engine replacement "needs", or he is utterly incompetent. My problem is, if they are hearing this new "piston slap" that was not there, what can be done? I bought this truck to haul a horse trailer with show horses that are irreplaceable-I am COMPLETELY uncomfortable with this rookie dismantling and reassembling my engine. I feel like I'll never trust this truck again, after he's spent 3 weeks playing Dora the Explorer at my expense. They even admitted my truck took the back burner as they had to install another vehicle's engine that just came in. This seems to be the only fix they're capable of.

Is this something I can escalate to Ford corporate? Has anyone else had a similar experience? What do I do at this point?

PLEASE HELP

 

We really avoid legal advice here, and it doesn't sound like a Ford issue, dealerships are owned independently.

It sounds like they are trying to get you a replaced motor under warranty correct? That would be a good thing, it's just taking too long from your perspective. Generally a warranty covers things that break, not things that might break. A fainting ticking wouldn't get covered on most warranties as nothing has failed yet. I'm not sure how they "made you" authorize a full motor inspection. Done now, but generally you don't want to say yes to repairs or diag work if you're not willing to pay for them. Warranty covers parts that fail not diag for potential problems. It's unlikely a gunky lifter would be covered by most used car warranties. If your'e willing to pay for the diag if nothing is found to have failed you can authorize (as you did) them to determine the cause, however, if it's just an old motor and nothing failed then you're stuck with a bill. If they can prove to the warranty company that the motor failed, you get a replaced one. This seems to be their intent, as well as what would be best for you.

How many miles are on the truck total? You say you purchased it 14k ago, but how many months or years ago was it. What sort of warranty did you purchase. The person at the dealership who you'd want to work for you if it was a recent purchase would be the used car manager. Still, after 14k on a used car you're generally at the mercy of the warranty company. Warranties don't guarantee a perfect machine. That's a common misconception. For now, just push to get the motor authorized by the warranty company.

 

I am not concerned about whether or not warranty will cover the work, which I have expressed to them. I know that warranty is never foolproof, nor will they cover everything. I'm not looking for anything for free-I just want them to fix the noise, not get an engine job.

The "made you" on the tear-down you seem to be questioning--every shop would do that, I get it. It's a catch-22. Sign this, or we won't touch your vehicle. I'm discussing the possibility that a more experienced mechanic would have been able to diagnose this before he was sitting in a sea of parts scratching his head.

Maybe in a lengthy post it was unclear- my issues with them are as follows:
-They will not entertain the idea of any fix other than a new engine. I'm fine with a repair. I'm fine with paying for a repair if warranty will not cover it. They "need a new engine", as a result of everything from rod bearings to a wrist pin. Is that not a bit fishy that we can't find the problem yet we know the solution is a new one?

-They have disassembled and reassembled and created a noise that was not there in the first place. That, to me, is not what I'm paying them for. I have more problems now than what I came in with, if there is in fact now a piston slap.

The truck has 112k miles. I understand they never guaranteed the vehicle, nor did warranty-I bought it as is. I'm not mad it's making a noise! I know used vehicles are a gamble, and other than this ticking, I'm happy with the truck. My issue is the manner in which they're demanding a new engine with no justification. My other issue is if the mechanic is not competent enough to diagnose it-I question this engine rebuild after tear-down.

 

Consultation with an attorney that handles cases like this would not cost very much and give you peace of mind.

 

Research the cylinder issues with early 5.0 motors. A motor replacement I think is the only fix to your issue. Some people live with the tick and it never develops into anything. Others have had motors replaced.

 

In my opinion, I'd rather have a brand new crate motor installed than have my existing motor torn down and dissected like a science project. I've been in Ford V8s many times before, and it is quite simply easier to replace an engine than it is to tear one of these down and try to get it all back together properly and in spec.

On a random note, it sickens me that Ford claims to subject these trucks to "millions of miles of testing" and yet the first TWO model years are absolute junk with rampant issues on both the Coyote and EcoBoost engines. Whoever buys them new pays $40,000 to participate in a real world test for Ford. Shame on them.

Good luck, I hope you get your truck back into perfect health again soon.

 

It's often less expensive to replace a motor than diag a little noise too. That might sound silly, but labor cost more than parts many times and a tick can be many things. The shop likely knows you don't want to pay the real cost of diag so their goal was to find a problem that would entitle you to warranty work, which has a much better chance of paying than a customer on the street. If they opted to help with the cost of the tare down, it's likely because they figure if you take a motor apart that makes a tick, you'll find something they can have covered by warranty. The charge to the warranty company for diag and reassembly is greater than the cost of the motor (highly unlikely to be a new create motor, but still a good rebuild). So then the warranty company pays for diag and replacement motor rather than diag and reassembly, which also decreases the odds of additional motor warranty work. It's all math to someone. I can't be sure of any of this, it's all speculation, but I'm trying to think of it from the business perspective, and it makes more sense than "look there is a woman, lets make her pay lots of money and tick her off so she'll never buy from us again"

 

Here is a good thread on the 5.0 ticking issue.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-knocking.html

 

Well, I can't really fault Ford's claim of "millions of miles of testing," which may be accurate to a point, but we have to realize with brand new products (i.e. specifically the 5.0 and Ecoboost) there is no way any test can accurately simulate real-world use and longevity; all tests have to be accelerated and subjected to pre-determined set of specific standards and criteria.

Nor will I go so far as to categorize the "first TWO model years" as "absolute junk." Maybe they have a higher than expected failure rate or problems, but certainly it hasn't risen to the level of massive manufacturer recalls of said engines, either voluntarily or government imposed. Even on forums where any issues are greatly amplified, there isn't an avalanche of complaints and grievances. Thus, from such metrics, these engines can't be considered "junk."

My point is that I try to stay away from version 1.0 products as much as I can, whether it be the newest engines or technology gadgets (e.g. first generation MyFord Touch), from ANY company.

 

It sounds to me like your insurance/warranty people are who you want to talk to. They don't want to get ripped off any more than you do. I'd suggest approaching them to have the vehicle moved to a different dealership to be worked on. I would also refuse to pay a penny to the con artists you are currently dealing with.

 

There are a lot of happy EcoBoost owners out there. I think Ford did there homework on that engine, mine has been awesome.
The internet is a great place to find negativity about anything. Some people come here to complain & bash any and everything. A lot of people come here to find answers to problems they are having. A lot less come here to say how happy they are.

 

As far as I can tell, the only reason you disagree with the dealer is because their assessment doesn't line up with your father's guess.

(1) On one side we have a person that literally guessed at the cause of the problem based on a sound. End of diagnosis.
(2) On the other side we have a person that tore down the engine and inspected everything and sees real issues.

I'll put my money on #2 any day.

I see no evidence that the dealer is as incompetent as you say. My honest opinion is that you're getting poor council that is causing you to be far too suspicious. I think you need to partner with the dealer instead of treating them like an adversary and you'll get better results.

Also, the dealer isn't in the business of rebuilding engines. They are going to remove and replace with a Ford factory built unit that they can back up with a warranty. If you just can't stand the idea of wasting things, then you can have the engine rebuilt by "Joe the machine shop guy" but there won't be a warranty with it. And frankly, your engine might be the first Coyote 5.0 that Joe has ever seen so that probably won't end well.

 

I'm thinking that a simple tick in the engine isn't enough reason to tear it down to parade rest anyway. The 5.0L engines are well known for having a tick and who knows how many are still running with that tick and it never got worse.

I too can't believe that the dealer is the villain here. However, there seems to be a new issue now that the engine was tore down and reassembled. Not too sure what the recourse would be on that one.