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I have some experience with this as we had 450s and 550s in our test fleet. The problem with the majority of Ford dealers with the tank issue is they are in the pipe stream of Ford parts replacement. You need a new tank, they provide a Ford supplied tank. The true definition of insanity by the dealer locked into a contractual agreement, "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". It's the rare dealer that will go off the books, and those that do tend to wait until warranty is up.
Internally Ford is in the denial stage aka, the tank was designed to deal with the fuel of the time, it's the fuels fault as that is what changed. And to change that thought means they screwed up. Same as putting a problematic snap ring in the transmissions. We warn people about it, but to do a recall means we FU'd.
As the owner of the vehicle out of warranty there is no need to be part of the group insanity. And with a dump body there are a lot of options, get an aftermarket replacement, adapt a plastic tank from a 350, or have a race shop build whatever you want to configure. I almost bought an '02 F-550 from our test fleet when we were closing the facility and the very first thing I was going to do was get rid of the stock tank. Not get it coated, get a different tank.
Fully agree with that TooMany.....Hind sight sure teaches you a lot. Was at the dealer this morning and my salesman said they had another guy in, same truck, had spent $14,000 out of pocket repairing his. Finally threw the Ford tank away and installed a Titan. After he cleaned the lines, the filter housings, installed new filters, new pressure reg, new injectors (again for him too), etc. ........he had no more problems. Time for another class action. If I treated my customers like Dearborn Ford has treated me....I'd be out of business.
Bet I won't ever purchase a heavy truck from Ford again...ever. On the other hand....my F 150s have never given any problems and I keep them 8 to 10 years.....except that 5.4 spark plug deal. Replaced those myself with the help of a Lisle tool. But other than that....not even a tail light burned out. M1911
Time to put in a new FICUM....checked running voltage of both batteries 13.96v Voltage with a stopped engine is 13.25 V. Getting 44 v out of the FICUM. What I want to know is are those $120 units any good.....just the power board. M1911
What the inside of my tank presently looks like. Sent out by the dealer at his expense, cleaned and sealed with something? Anyone know what this red stuff is? About 4" of diesel and the floor of the tank is spotless at this point. I can't tell if the rough looking areas are rust or bubbles in the coating. When I blow up the pictures and look at others I took it looks like bubbles. If it is rust it appears to be well encapsulated. But, will it hold up???????? M1911
Looks like the stuff we used to use on rusty tanks.its a liquid you just pour in roll the tank around until it coats everything,then let it cure,and your done.you can get it at the parts store.it works ok,but I wouldn't trust it for long term use.
In the small aircraft industry slush sealant is used quite a bit without
failure of the coating. Prep is the key. If it's not cleat in one tiny spot
it will start to come up there.
And that's why I said I would use a coated tank. It's hard enough to do that in a factory environment with brand new metal. But to coat a used tank relies for me too much on the field person doing the work. I've seen too many motorcycle tanks that had failed coatings.
With a business the downtime of a vehicle often is not thought of as much as the repair cost by people. But employees not able to generate a profit because of failed tools cost a business a huge amount. Do it twice and the business management and accountant will go crazy.
M1911, all manufacturers have screw ups. And often they don't acknowledge the problem or can't due to corporate structure. For decades the facilities I was in charge of did extensive vehicle testing on all makes, and I spent time at all the companies test facilities and participated in many of their procedures. We were never Ford employees but all of us thought the Ford vehicles were the best overall, and that was noted by the vehicles in our employee parking lot. And in my driveway. For example, in our routine tests we would have to replace all of the suspension and often axles in the Grand Cherokees. Every 15,000 miles. Ford Explorers made it to at least 75k or more. We broke GMC pickup frame rails, never on the Fords. I grew up on our farm and now grow Christmas trees. I understand your work environment.
As I reread your first post I think you got hooked into what I call the mechanic vs technician viewpoint. My take on vehicle repair is a technician (what it seems dealership service like to be called these days) looks up what the "book" says to replace and replaces that. It's also what the dealership likes to do since it's Ford's customer, not you. You also buy the vehicle from the dealer, not Ford. A mechanic is the old school guy who tries to understand why the problem occurred and not only replace what's broken, but make alterations so it doesn't happen again. He's often a little too innovative for most dealerships.
With fuel tanks coming apart a mechanic would have also put in a fuel pressure gauge during the first repair so if there was filter clogging that would result in low fuel pressure about to damage injectors the vehicle operator would have some way of identifying the issue.
After the second tank failure, a mechanic would have suggested the aftermarket tank, or gave you the option to put in an F350 plastic tank, which a mechanic could easily do. Smaller tank, but optional.
A mechanic who also knows this vehicle would be suggesting you review what alternator is on this motor and a strict battery check schedule. No alternator can make up for poor batteries and they are really important, especially if they are like what was on our trucks, sitting exposed on the frame rails. Yeah in the boxes, but still more exposed. Charging voltage and float voltage is fine, but it's the voltage drop at cold start is the real concern. And with a dump body if it's electric powered I'd be making real sure that alternator is a Leece-Neville 230a unit.
A power side FICM board from International if they are still available is another option.
Here is where I am at present. The truck is running and we are using it. It is not running 100%....something seems wrong in one cylinder (injector?) I've felt rougher running engines but something still isn't right. No unusual noise though. No CELs. I have ordered the Dorman new ficum for $117. Will be here tomorrow. I will install and test voltage. Batteries are 13.25v disconnected and resting. Running they are 13.96v. I have not tested the alternator.
Ford did, no problem for whatever that is worth. Fuel pressure was good....again for whatever that is worth. They reported low voltage at the ficum...no further information at that diagnosis and possible high pressure oil leak and problem with an injector. The injector problem according to them could be a result of low ficum voltage, clogging or low oil pressure to the unit.
The reviews of the Dorman are very good. Is it as good as the one linked in previous threads? Doubt it. I've read all of the information provided in that link and have to say I pretty much agree with everything I read. I am not interested in modifying the engine all that much and not sure I need another 40 hp or more. There are caveats that come with increasing hp and until I get this sorted I'm not interested in some of the required changes.
Changing the oil and filter tomorrow, installing the new ficum, will measure voltage, batteries again and update. A properly operating ficum will not correct high pressure oil loss to the injectors or a clogged or bad injector. But, one thing at a time since I am doing this myself at this point.
The filters and tank will be inspected regularly.....every two weeks at first and then each month. It is very easy to do with a dump bed, raise it up, loosen 6 screws, pull out the sending unit.....look through the big hole at the tank. I will keep you all updated and I certainly appreciate the advice. Not in disagreement at all regarding properly made and tuned boards, polymer tanks, etc.
Ultimately I fully expect I will be installing the Titan tank made for this truck. Have already discussed it with them, priced it, etc. But, until I see problems with the coated tank ( cleaned and coated by the dealer at no cost to me) I am concentrating on getting the engine 100%. At the first sign of anything in the tank or filters and the tank will be gone though. M1911
Internally Ford is in the denial stage aka, the tank was designed to deal with the fuel of the time, it's the fuels fault as that is what changed.
I would tend to disagree (tank designed for "fuel of the time") with that because the tanks in other trucks don't seem to have a similar problem.
Since these "delamination" problems only seem to happen to a particular medium duty truck indicates to me that Ford used a tank supplier for their 550 that used a defective tank sealant from the "getgo". Anyone else using that particular sealant maybe also had the same problem, but changed it before it became a widespread problem.
Ford probably bought a "Zillion" tanks for parts replacement that are still sitting on the "shelf". Probably why they keep replacing bad tanks with bad tanks.
Before I got my F350, I was looking at a local F550 and almost bought it .......but my plan was going to be replacing the tank with a BIG Titan right out of the box!
I might still change my F-350 tank with a 50 or 75 gallon Titan.
I didn't mean all the tanks. I meant for the steel tanks used in the 450/550 series, and possibly from one supplier who would have determined what coating was used. Coatings, if any, for the poly tanks would not be like what would be used in metal tanks.
Ford doesn't buy a large volume of parts at one time. We varied production on a monthly schedule based on their distribution centers inventory. Ford follows inventory costs closely.
I know of situations where manufacturers have taken warranty cost hits rather then deal with the costs required to certify part changes to government regulations in the Federal Register. Since the fuel system was never in my company's OE supply line I'm not sure what NHTSA crash or EPA recert areas would have to be retested. I know a brake change can get to between $250k to $500k in test costs before release.
I wished Anthony would chime in on what he has the guy that
does the tanks for his use do to them.
The Dorman FICM id a junker. Small traces to start with and they don't
even give Ed enough to work with for a repair do the thin traces.
Cut corners where you cans and to hell with the end-user.
Just like the crap Dorman gaskets. Avoid at all costs. Unless
you want to do it twice.
Again, not in disagreement. The board should be here today, will inspect and install and check voltage. Am following some of the other advice already from Ed's site. Not sure I want the full blown re-tune. What I want now is to determine exactly what is wrong with the engine before I spend $500 on FICUM and $1000 on a tank. If this truck looks like it is never going to be right regardless of what I spend on it I will get rid of it. Our old '96 Dodge with a Cummins in it has over 350,000 miles and we've never done anything to it other than routine maint. It still runs fine and even looks pretty good....except for that ugly Dodge grill.... Still, it runs and reliably and that is much more important than looks. M1911
I think Ed has made it pretty clear where he stands and I think he knows his stuff.
The boost gauge shows 20 psi I believe. The truck doesn't have an oil pressure analog gauge, same for exhaust temp or fuel pressure. It also doesn't have a coolant filter or the EGR delete. Pretty stock at this point....which seems to be the problem. I want to see the solder work on the Dorman. I looked at three different ones on line and the Dorman looked the closest to the OEM....not that that means anything. Not too impressed with the OEM. When I look at these boards....everything looks new to me.
Unfortunately, I don't know much about electronics and circuit boards, capacitors, etc. or even where to begin with assessment. M1911
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Slideshow: Called the Fortress, the 850-horsepower pickup combines Raptor underpinnings with military-inspired features, survival equipment, and a starting price of $285,000.
Still, it runs and reliably and that is much more important than looks. M1911