Just ordered a gear reduction starter...
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,600
Likes: 64
From: Billings, MT
Just ordered a gear reduction starter...
For a 1996 460 to fit my '77 with a built 408. It has a solenoid built in to the PMGR starter so I'll be running a new "I" wire to it and only using the old solenoid for a junction.
I'm tired of wondering if the stock starter us gonna crank fast enough to fire this 10.25 to 1 new motor. Especially when hot. Thinking about wrapping the starter wires with some kind of heat shielding as well whIle they are out. Anything local I can pick up? Maybe from the hardware or parts store?
TIA
I'm tired of wondering if the stock starter us gonna crank fast enough to fire this 10.25 to 1 new motor. Especially when hot. Thinking about wrapping the starter wires with some kind of heat shielding as well whIle they are out. Anything local I can pick up? Maybe from the hardware or parts store?
TIA
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 862
Likes: 7
From: like subarctic, brrr man!
Uh, the stock I wire to the starter?
It's a little early so my thinking is fuzzy, but that's not a good idea.
Move the Starter wire from one side of the starter solenoid/relay to the battery side, so that it's constant hot. Then make a new 10 gauge wire from the starter relay/solenoid to the new PMGR starter.
It's a little early so my thinking is fuzzy, but that's not a good idea.
Move the Starter wire from one side of the starter solenoid/relay to the battery side, so that it's constant hot. Then make a new 10 gauge wire from the starter relay/solenoid to the new PMGR starter.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 862
Likes: 7
From: like subarctic, brrr man!
Keep the old relay/solenoid, and use it to power the pmgr solenoid. Not sure if the ignition switch is up to handling the power a pmgr takes...
When I grab the parts of a '96, ford used the large starter relay to power the pmgr solenoid. So I followed suite.
All it takes is a large ring terminal a bit of 10 gauge wire and another ring terminal on the other end. Then the original doesn't need to be cut up and things can be reverted if need be.
When I grab the parts of a '96, ford used the large starter relay to power the pmgr solenoid. So I followed suite.
All it takes is a large ring terminal a bit of 10 gauge wire and another ring terminal on the other end. Then the original doesn't need to be cut up and things can be reverted if need be.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,600
Likes: 64
From: Billings, MT
Not having a solenoid down there hasn't helped. If I leave the hood open for about 5 minutes it cranks right up. It's definitely heat related.
I daily drove the truck last summer and the issues were mostly when temps were above 90*. The starter appears fairly new but who knows. I'll report back with an initial impression and then once again when the summer heat arrives.
Zark-eh, thanks for the tip. I'll see how my '95 bronco is wired and compare
I daily drove the truck last summer and the issues were mostly when temps were above 90*. The starter appears fairly new but who knows. I'll report back with an initial impression and then once again when the summer heat arrives.
Zark-eh, thanks for the tip. I'll see how my '95 bronco is wired and compare
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 862
Likes: 7
From: like subarctic, brrr man!
The '95 Bronco will be using an updated starter solenoid/relay that prevents welding of contact due to the lugs rotating inside (the copper lug that the cables bolt onto). There's no reason not to update the relay/solenoid to the '95 version Here's a Napa Echlin ST404
One lug is battery, and the old starter wire will go here to. Then the other large lug will have a 10 Gauge wire going to the new style pmgr starter solenoid. So the large cable going to the starter is always hot, with the 10 Gauge wire being switched by the starter relay which is switched by the ignition key. It's over kill, but this is how ford did it with the pmgr style transition.
here's a forum post about the pmgr conversion and a pertinent photo showing the new wiring:
One lug is battery, and the old starter wire will go here to. Then the other large lug will have a 10 Gauge wire going to the new style pmgr starter solenoid. So the large cable going to the starter is always hot, with the 10 Gauge wire being switched by the starter relay which is switched by the ignition key. It's over kill, but this is how ford did it with the pmgr style transition.
here's a forum post about the pmgr conversion and a pertinent photo showing the new wiring:
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,600
Likes: 64
From: Billings, MT
Well, got 'er installed, thanks for the wiring help! Night and day difference. Took videos before and after which I'll post when I get home from work.
Cranks so much faster and starts easier. This is a great mod... I did have to get a longer starter wire, between the offset of the lug on the new starter and going to the other side of the solenoid I needed 6" longer.
Good mod!
Cranks so much faster and starts easier. This is a great mod... I did have to get a longer starter wire, between the offset of the lug on the new starter and going to the other side of the solenoid I needed 6" longer.
Good mod!
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,600
Likes: 64
From: Billings, MT
ok, video is not uploading, lets try this....
Here's the new starter; a new TYC from Rockauto ($63) to fit a '96 F-250 with a 7.5L
New starter wires and heat shield
Not only is it a good bit smaller, also lighter and clears the headers with more room. Bolts right in place of the old horseshoe starter and even uses the same bolts! The old starter was a Napa reman and only had around 8k miles on it. Never gave me trouble until the new motor build with a healthy bump in compression.
Here's the new starter; a new TYC from Rockauto ($63) to fit a '96 F-250 with a 7.5L
New starter wires and heat shield
Not only is it a good bit smaller, also lighter and clears the headers with more room. Bolts right in place of the old horseshoe starter and even uses the same bolts! The old starter was a Napa reman and only had around 8k miles on it. Never gave me trouble until the new motor build with a healthy bump in compression.
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 475
Likes: 34
From: Vermont
Geez! Can this forum get any better!!!!!! What a GREAT source of information and help on post after post day after day! I truly feel like writing this little reply virtually every day upon reading the answers and assistance so many DIFFERENT guys give to others problems. Good stuff,good people! gary
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,600
Likes: 64
From: Billings, MT
Ok, let's try this video thing again. Here is the old.
And here is the new. It starts so quickly and is so quiet I had to wait until the seat belt buzzer went off and then after starting unhooked the coil and cranked it some more to get a good sound byte.
You have to click on each video to play, there you have it! Don't pay $200 for some fancy mini starter!
And here is the new. It starts so quickly and is so quiet I had to wait until the seat belt buzzer went off and then after starting unhooked the coil and cranked it some more to get a good sound byte.
You have to click on each video to play, there you have it! Don't pay $200 for some fancy mini starter!
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,441
Likes: 5
From: Muskegon, MI (home)
The '95 Bronco will be using an updated starter solenoid/relay that prevents welding of contact due to the lugs rotating inside (the copper lug that the cables bolt onto). There's no reason not to update the relay/solenoid to the '95 version Here's a Napa Echlin ST404
One lug is battery, and the old starter wire will go here to. Then the other large lug will have a 10 Gauge wire going to the new style pmgr starter solenoid. So the large cable going to the starter is always hot, with the 10 Gauge wire being switched by the starter relay which is switched by the ignition key. It's over kill, but this is how ford did it with the pmgr style transition.
here's a forum post about the pmgr conversion and a pertinent photo showing the new wiring:
One lug is battery, and the old starter wire will go here to. Then the other large lug will have a 10 Gauge wire going to the new style pmgr starter solenoid. So the large cable going to the starter is always hot, with the 10 Gauge wire being switched by the starter relay which is switched by the ignition key. It's over kill, but this is how ford did it with the pmgr style transition.
here's a forum post about the pmgr conversion and a pertinent photo showing the new wiring:
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