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So I have been slowly reviving this 93 5.8l E250 cargo van that I acquired a few months back.
My latest project was to replace the master cylinder and bleed the brakes. The brakes feel really solid, but the rear tires have a tendency to lock up with only medium brake pressure.
This is my first van, so maybe this is normal for a drum brake, no interior, completely empty, cargo van. I assume it is really light in the rear
I will say that I can go into the brakes REALLY hard in reverse with zero lockup on front or rear tires.
So my thoughts are either 1 this is completely normal for an empty cargo van, or 2 the weight transfer of the van is a little too much and my shocks might need some replacement.
So I have been slowly reviving this 93 5.8l E250 cargo van that I acquired a few months back.
My latest project was to replace the master cylinder and bleed the brakes. The brakes feel really solid, but the rear tires have a tendency to lock up with only medium brake pressure.
This is my first van, so maybe this is normal for a drum brake, no interior, completely empty, cargo van. I assume it is really light in the rear
I will say that I can go into the brakes REALLY hard in reverse with zero lockup on front or rear tires.
So my thoughts are either 1 this is completely normal for an empty cargo van, or 2 the weight transfer of the van is a little too much and my shocks might need some replacement.
Would appreciate any thoughts anyone might have.
Have you pulled the rear drums to look for any leakage. Could be something has gotten on the linings causing them to stick to the drums?
jim
Have you pulled the rear drums to look for any leakage. Could be something has gotten on the linings causing them to stick to the drums?
jim
I pulled one of the rear drums partway off, and gave it a quick once over to check the pad thickness. I didn't see anything that stuck out, but I also didn't do a thorough inspection.
The forward rotation of the wheels/drums activates the brake shoe torque. So it's very normal to have that difference when comparing Forward to Reverse.
I'm not sure about the forward lock up being normal... No comment there. But your idea about weight transfer due to shocks is and intriguing theory.
That would be the bottom return spring. Would also explain why the rear tries to come around to the side whenever they do lock up. Only 1 side was locking up.
I'm still in the process of replacing the shoes and all the springs etc. Only got once side done today. Will be doing the other side tomorrow and we will see if it fixes the issue.
FYI. There is a front shoe and a trailing shoe, the forward shoe will have a little less friction material on it so be sure to compare all 4 so that you get them paired correctly and also installed in the correct locations.
FYI. There is a front shoe and a trailing shoe, the forward shoe will have a little less friction material on it so be sure to compare all 4 so that you get them paired correctly and also installed in the correct locations.
Thanks for the heads up on that!
I just went and checked the two shoes i have left and it appears they packed them 2 fronts and 2 rears, instead of what I assumed was a pair for each side.
Looks like i'll be dissembling the one I just did. At least I've got practice now and should be able to do it much quicker.
One other question. What the heck are these parts? They were in my full hardware kit, but I didn't see anything like these on the side i already did.
FYI. There is a front shoe and a trailing shoe, the forward shoe will have a little less friction material on it so be sure to compare all 4 so that you get them paired correctly and also installed in the correct locations.
Yes----once upon a time brake shoes came labeled to ID their relative positions when installed; primary (towards front) and secondary (rear). As noted they are different and when incorrectly mounted cause the described issues.
Not sure how this is identified these days as its been forever since I myself have replaced brake shoes. I was under the impression the thicker liner was placed towards the front as it was theoretically the first to contact the drum during forward motion. Because we tend to drive forward faster and more often going forward we need more stopping power in that direction. Only stunt drivers like Joie Chitwood would need the same brakes going forward OR reverse.
Apologies if I'm in error, memory can play tricks like that.
Yes----once upon a time brake shoes came labeled to ID their relative positions when installed; primary (towards front) and secondary (rear). As noted they are different and when incorrectly mounted cause the described issues.
Not sure how this is identified these days as its been forever since I myself have replaced brake shoes. I was under the impression the thicker liner was placed towards the front as it was theoretically the first to contact the drum during forward motion. Because we tend to drive forward faster and more often going forward we need more stopping power in that direction. Only stunt drivers like Joie Chitwood would need the same brakes going forward OR reverse.
Apologies if I'm in error, memory can play tricks like that.
Well in the case of the shoes I purchased the rear ones are identified by the little stud pressed in from the factory for the auto adjustment bracket. The front ones do not have this stud.
Because I bought the master hardware kit that included everything except the shoes, it also came with those studs. Since I was not paying attention, i simply pressed in a stud on one of the 2 shoes and installed them. Had I inspected both "separately" wrapped sets, I would have seen that 1 set had the studs, the other set did not.
I do find it strange that the shoes are nearly identical front and back. The last time I did brake shoes (a LONG time ago), i swear the front ones and back ones were physically different so it really wasn't possible to get them flipped.
I just went and checked the two shoes i have left and it appears they packed them 2 fronts and 2 rears, instead of what I assumed was a pair for each side.
Looks like i'll be dissembling the one I just did. At least I've got practice now and should be able to do it much quicker.
One other question. What the heck are these parts? They were in my full hardware kit, but I didn't see anything like these on the side i already did.
Thanks Jim, I figured they were for something like that.
Thanks everyone else for your help as well.
I finished the brake job today with the correct shoes in the correct locations. After a thorough brake bleed (I also replaced the wheel cylinders) and several hundred clicks of the adjustment screws they brakes are working great. I can get on them HARD and they just stop the van, no lockups.
I asked myself this back when I did my last drum brake job. How the hell did drum brakes exist before disk brakes?!?! They are monumentally more complicated in how they work compared to disk brakes. It seems to me as if something this complicated would be designed "AFTER" something as simple as disk brakes. The only thing i could possibly think of us that drums were designed originally with cables instead of hydraulics and when hydraulics happened they just adapted them to use that instead of redesigning the whole brake system.
Thanks Jim, I figured they were for something like that.
Thanks everyone else for your help as well.
I finished the brake job today with the correct shoes in the correct locations. After a thorough brake bleed (I also replaced the wheel cylinders) and several hundred clicks of the adjustment screws they brakes are working great. I can get on them HARD and they just stop the van, no lockups.
I asked myself this back when I did my last drum brake job. How the hell did drum brakes exist before disk brakes?!?! They are monumentally more complicated in how they work compared to disk brakes. It seems to me as if something this complicated would be designed "AFTER" something as simple as disk brakes. The only thing i could possibly think of us that drums were designed originally with cables instead of hydraulics and when hydraulics happened they just adapted them to use that instead of redesigning the whole brake system.
I asked myself the same question more than once
(usually right after the return spring slipped off the brake pliers sending my knuckles into the nearest steel edge!).
Here's the best history that I have found on car brakes:
Well in the case of the shoes I purchased the rear ones are identified by the little stud pressed in from the factory for the auto adjustment bracket. The front ones do not have this stud.
I do find it strange that the shoes are nearly identical front and back. The last time I did brake shoes (a LONG time ago), i swear the front ones and back ones were physically different so it really wasn't possible to get them flipped.
That's new to me as well----even though my 2000 E250 had the rear shoes and drums changed some time ago it was hired out so I paid no attention.
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